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SteveDallas
SteveDallas New Reader
1/26/17 7:36 p.m.

This is what I want to eventually solve with this Miata.

It's a long boring video with no overlay or lap times displayed, so don't get too excited.

At about 11:00, I have chased down a Lexus ISF. He refuses to let me pass for about 10 minutes. I am clearly out-cornering him in every turn, but he can easily walk away from me on the straights. All I need to do with a guy like that, is stay with him enough on the straights to convince him I really am faster than he is. The more I think about it, the more I think N/A power isn't going to accomplish that. I'll eventually need a low boost, fast spooling turbo.

On the bright side, the goofball runs out of gas at 19:40. Probably one of those who splashes in a couple of gallons at a time for HPDE.

[What may not be clear in the video is how much I am lifting and braking to stay off of him in the corners. He is constantly killing my momentum, which makes my slowness in the straights worse.]

Unfortunately, this happens more than it should. This was the advanced run group, and that guy really had no business being in it. Somehow, he talked his way up to advanced and made problems for more experienced drivers. When I tried to ask him if he saw me in his rearview, he cursed at me in Japanese and made rude hand gestures, before I could even get my mouth open. Alas.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
1/26/17 8:01 p.m.

Easiest way to deal with that kind of problem is a quick duck into the pits. Second easiest is to get a little way back then come rampaging up his backside. That usually gets people's attention, and if you time it right you can carry that corner speed on to the straight and get even with him. Flashing headlights can help.

I just saw an NC Miata give a little chrome horn action to a Cayman at the Rolex 24 practice - Cayman passed him on the straight then parked it in the corner, Miata got annoyed

As for the article - that was a bit of an overreaction on my part. Sorry. I do my damnedest to be completely open and fair so implications (real or assumed) that I'm anything but are a bit of a hot button.

I think Sam tried to avoid dissing any particular car because they belong to people, individuals who put their hearts and souls into them and then let him drive the car. A couple of them had reliability problems, but he's not going to out the owner in R&T because they worked so hard to get it fixed so he could drive it.

My experience with magazines is mostly a very uneven relationship. Very big magazines which we could never afford to advertise in, who are usually driving a car because they really wanted to drive it. Usually as a personal special request - we got our first road test in R&T because Larry Webster just plain wanted to try it out. Funnily, I have to try harder to get the GRM guys behind the wheel and they get 95% of our advertising budget.

The journalists of the big mags usually don't pull many punches, but they are willing to accept prototype behavior on prototypes if it's not indicative of a fundamental problem. I'm basing this on experience with our cars, which is usually pretty positive so the articles come out the same way. The articles come out very positive, so maybe that's some of your predicted bias towards everything being good - the really good becomes exceptionally so.

I know that Sam considers the 4C to be a bit of an evil joke after a very fun evening of talking about everything under the sun. Here's what he said about it in print: "Carbon tub, loud everything, unpredictable turbo lag, heavy and distant steering. Lots of sideways, not always when you want. It reminded me of high school: fantasism, with an undercurrent of misery."

That's some pretty direct criticism

That said, I know that a R&T review that was very critical of the tires on a supercar cost the magazine a big, big advertising deal with that particular tire manufacturer. Which was like my four year old nephew having a meltdown when it's time to leave Grandma's place.

Anyhow, if you do want details on the specs of a certain car in the test, drop me a line. Especially if it's one of the ones that wasn't working properly.

SteveDallas
SteveDallas New Reader
1/26/17 8:45 p.m.

Yeah. I know I can just duck into the pits for a little space, but I wanted to pass this guy on principle. Wasn't seeing the red mist or anything; just wanted to teach him a car that is slow on paper can be fast in the corners in the right hands, and therefore put up much faster lap times. I did try dive-bombing him in corner entry through mid corner a couple of times to get his attention, but we are not allowed to pass in the corners at the driving school, so I had to give up my momentum and back off. (Things might have been different on a member day, but he was squirrely enough that I might be afraid to pass him in a turn.) Tried flashing brights, too. This guy was impervious to signals of all kinds.

It is true that I should probably not naturally equate what happens in the world of music journalism with what happens in the world of automotive journalism. The projection is natural, whether deserved or not. I also know that many authors are honest and unbiased, and their work is hacked up by the editors before it goes to print.

That said, in re-reading the article this evening, the author did present a pretty fair view of FM products. He was complimentary of suspension setups (and approach toward) and some turbo setups, and did point out "problems" with lag and non-linear response with other turbo setups. Seems balanced upon further review. When I "read" it this morning, it was a quick skim looking for suspension info, and the thrust of the article seemed radiant toward every car, which set off my skepticism light across the board. Again, sorry for the misunderstanding.

SteveDallas
SteveDallas New Reader
2/4/17 10:09 a.m.

Floor Mat Repair

The floor mats in this car came with those terrible plastic devil anchors that tear up the carpet. The PO apparently cut them off at some point, which is good, because there are pretty bad cuts in the carpet that are several inches long each. To better secure the driver's floor mat, I installed a pair of #2 (3/8") grommets in the holes left behind by the devil anchors. Brass is what I had on hand, so I used them. I sanded them, hit them with metal etching primer, and painted them black. Eh. It didn't work. The black paint can be scraped off with a thumbnail. I'll order some black oxide grommets and replace them eventually. Lowe's Racing Department provided me with #10 1.25" black oxide screws, plus black oxide flat washers, black oxide hex nuts, stainless flat washers, and stainless nylock nuts. Black stuff on top, stainless stuff on bottom. Stacking that hardware with carpet and floor pan between between created a pair of solid studs, with which to anchor the grommets. Now the floor mat does not slide around and should be much safer.

(Things don't look straight in this photo, but that's just an illusion created by the lousy camera in my phone.)

It's a good start, but I won't be happy until I replace the grommets with black oxide and spray the bottom hardware with undercoating.

My younger son had some important work to do as well.

SteveDallas
SteveDallas New Reader
2/4/17 10:17 a.m.

Radiator Sealing

I didn't need to do this until this spring, but I had some time this weekend and decided to get it over-with. A trip to Home Depot Racing resulted in $5 spent and a selection of pipe foam insulation. That stuff works great in sealing the sides of RX-8 radiators, due to the way the nose is constructed. Will it work with an NB2 Miata? Hopefully.

I slid the top piece in, when I installed the radiator about 1000 miles ago. It has served its purpose and stayed in place. Maybe I'll make or buy a fancy plate to seal the rest of the holes and dress things up.

The bottom is a little trickier. I don't know if this is the final solution, because I don't know if the foam will blow out on me. Freeway testing is needed.

There is room on the bottom side to stuff one of the largest and one of the smallest diameter foam tubes. The largest is held in place by the bumper tray. The smaller piece is trimmed to fit under the AC hard lines. Both are contacted by the undertray, once reinstalled. Between the bumper tray, AC lines, and undertray, there should be enough friction to hold these in place. If I see problems down the road, glue and/or wire ties will be employed. I'll report back on how well this works.

That condenser really needs some help. Anyone know of a fin straightening tool that actually works? Or should I just set aside 4 hours, a 6 pack of beer, and use my trusty little screwdriver?

Next, I turned my attention to the sides of the radiator. There are body braces on either side of the radiator that look like they could assist in holding a piece of foam in place. The smallest size foam has to be trimmed to be able to force it in there, and it is easier to install it from the bottom. It doesn't look like much, but it will work, and the foam is held tightly enough, that it shouldn't move. This foam runs the height of the radiator, from top to bottom and seals a substantial gap on either side.

What is left, is a V-shaped gap on either side of the radiator, between the body braces and the uprights. I don't have anything on hand that will reliably seal a gap that large, so I will have to revisit this in the future.

.

SteveDallas
SteveDallas New Reader
2/4/17 10:45 a.m.

Brake Ducts

The real reason I attacked sealing the radiator in the dead of winter is, I was already in there installing the brake ducts. For this, I went all credit card mechanic again and ordered the Singular kit from Goodwin Racing. By the time I bought Singular or Trackspeed prawns and added hose and flanges from Aircraft Spruce plus shipping on all of it, it would cost more than just buying the kit, so I bought the kit.

This little project was done in fits and starts, because the duct hose was backordered for a few weeks.

The plan was to do the obvious on an NB with fog lights. The plan did not work out so well. I ordered the 2.5" kit to clear my 225 tires. The 2.5" flanges do not fit my fog light holes as well as they could. There is less than 1/8" of overlap, when front-mounted, which means there is not enough bumper material to hold even a #4 bolt reliably without notching and clamping with fender washers, which makes things irreversible. Rear mounting could be made to work with the right hardware, but would still be a redneck kluge. (Still, I may need to do that in the future, when I have to figure out piping for a FMIC--turbo kluges are acceptable.) And, I like my fog lights and don't really want to give them up unless absolutely forced to. [Zips up flame suit]

Remember those V-shaped gaps between the body braces and bumper uprights? Any sharp edges on those? No. About the right size to hold 2.5" hose in place? Yes. Tightly? Yes. Is there anything more permanent than a temporary solution? Nope. Decision made!

This is pretty straightforward stuff, so on to the ridiculously oversized photos.

I finally found a reason to use wire ties! (Leave these loose enough to allow the duct to roll up under the sway bar and rotate partly beside it, according to steering inputs.)

Trim the hose back to the wire, shape the spring wire into a V that roughly matches the opening, shove it in there, then reshape it back into a circle to hold it in place. It takes more than 20lbs of force to move the hose--even before the bumper tray, undertray, and fender liners are reinstalled. It isn't going anywhere.

The undertray needs a trim.

Done.

The fender liner does too.

When you size the hose, be sure to turn the steering wheel fully to whichever side your are sizing, to make sure there is enough slack available, and leave that slack toward the hub. If you forget to do that, 10' of hose is not enough for a do-over of both sides. Fortunately, you can screw sections of this stuff together to make longer lengths without the need for couplers.

Finished.

Yes, I'm scavenging some positive pressure from in front of the radiator to cool the brakes, but I don't think it will matter as long a this car remains N/A.

After a 42 mile test drive in mostly city driving, I did not experience any rubbing or other problems, except when in full lock backing out of my driveway or maneuvering at very low speeds in parking lots. I'm calling the brake duct installation a success, pending data from the track. The only minor quibble I have, is that my car sounds like a Wiffle ball going down the highway, which makes it even more ghey. Of course, that sound does confirm this setup is sending substantial air flow to the rotors.

Also notable, is that my radiator sealing foam has not budged at speeds up to 90mph, so I think I might be good there, too.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
2/4/17 10:48 a.m.

That should work nicely. Post-radiator pressure is more important than pre- in my opinion.

We've got a set of inlets coming soon that will replace your fog lights with a proper 2.5" duct, I think we're just waiting for the production parts.

SteveDallas
SteveDallas New Reader
2/4/17 11:49 a.m.

That was my thinking as well. This arrangement diverts air that would be bypassing the radiator and pressurizing the engine compartment to the brakes. That should be roughly neutral. In theory. Maybe.

[Wall of Text time]

This is an apples to socket wrenches anecdote from experience with my RX-8. In an effort to bring coolant temps down in the summer, I tightly sealed all 4 sides of the radiator. The result was lower coolant temps (212F avg, 218F max), but much higher engine compartment temps (~260F avg), which is hard on the under-hood plastics, not to mention the battery. Back when I replaced the radiator, I noticed Mazda used rigid foam top and bottom, but very light foam on the sides of the OEM radiator. I surmised Mazda engineers designed the system to allow some air to pass by the sides of the radiator to optimize engine compartment pressure (and cooling). So, I removed the foam from the side of the radiator on the hot side of the engine bay and compared track data the following month. The ambient temp was the same (~95F), and humidity was a little lower. The data showed the coolant temp actually decreased a bit (210F avg, 215F max), and the engine compartment temp decreased dramatically (~200F avg). It seems allowing some air to pass on one side of the radiator created a localized negative pressure environment that pulled more air through the radiator. Either that, or rotary engines can be air cooled by cooling the exhaust manifold. Or both. What the experience tells me is, the conventional wisdom of, "Seal the entire radiator as tightly as possible!" misses some nuance that could result in a system that works better.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
2/4/17 11:54 a.m.

It's almost like Mazda knows what they're doing! Interesting little experiment.

Airflow through the rad is only one part of cooling. You can have a jacked up cooling system for some other reason - inefficient water pump, bad internal flow, even a bad radiator cap - and spend a lot of time working on baffling the radiator with no effect at all. Given your current state, you shouldn't have any trouble unless you're running nose to tail like a Spec Miata.

SteveDallas
SteveDallas New Reader
2/12/17 10:34 a.m.

The turbo project is officially on hold. I just blew the kitty on joining my home track as a full member. That affords me all the seat time I can stand, without having to navigate the various driving schools, without having to worry about the weather, and without the headaches associated with being an instructor.

Track day tomorrow, and weather looks pretty good for once. Fingers crossed.

SteveDallas
SteveDallas New Reader
2/15/17 10:21 a.m.

Track Day Report

Wow. That was enlightening.

The Super Tramp had her first real track day yesterday. The schedule consisted of 3 sessions running CCW in the morning, and 3 sessions running CW in the afternoon. I had no instructor duties, so I could just focus on driving and having a good time. The car did great. The weather ranged from low 40s and cloudy to high 60s and partly cloudy. Other than wanting to extend oars and row to help it out on the straights, the Tramp performed beyond expectations. Its current limitation became immediately obvious: 1.4G means I REALLY need seats and harnesses. The car was capable of more than I could physically manage. I was quite literally holding on for dear life in nearly every corner, and it was exhausting. I am SOOOOO sore today.

Random observations follow. I will probably follow up with more details later.

Brakes

The Carbotech XP10 / XP8 combination worked very well. Reducing the rear compound prevented me from locking up the rears first, like I had done before. The stopping power of these pads matched with the grip in the tires, and I did not really have to think much about threshold braking. I had only 1 brief lock-up event that came during a warm-up lap, when I forgot my tires were not, well, warm yet, and it did not cause any tire damage, as I realized it immediately. The brake ducts worked wonders for keeping things cool. I measured ~280F front pad temps after running 1 cool-down lap at the end of any given session and rolling into the paddock. Hell, the front pads are still painted orange after 6 sessions; they have never made it past 1 session on the RX-8 before. For reference, my front pads on my RX-8 will measure >700F under the same conditions.

Tires

I have run a lot of tires before, but never R888s. I bought these, because TireRack ran a killer sale on them in December, with rim purchase. They have a good amount of grip, provide adequate feedback, and are relatively precise. The amount of wear is about what I expected, and the wear patterns are all more even than I have experienced before, thanks to 949's alignment settings. Time will tell how long they last. I can't really make any direct comparisons to other tires, as I have only driven this car on 360TW tires before.

Suspension

I will post a full review after another track day or two. As previously noted, I have mostly Flyin' Miata parts in my suspension. I took a toolbox with me--expecting to need to make some adjustments. I never needed to. After using the first session to set front and rear rebound according to the Penske method, I found the balance of the car to be so close to perfect as to not warrant any further adjustment. To the extent I could get the car to lose grip, which was very little, all 4 tires would slip together in a predictable way. I have 2 softer adjustment settings available in the front sway bar, should I decide I want a little more rotation in the future. Finding the edge of grip was nearly impossible; I spent most of the day looking for 10/10ths and never really found it. I couldn't stay in my seat well enough the push the car hard enough to find it. I will post actual data later, but I hit 1.4G at least once nearly every lap. The short summary is, the suspension just worked. There was never a time that I found myself wishing it would do more of X or less of Y. It was utterly forgettable, which is a very good thing.

[edit]

One other noteworthy bit of suspension information is an observation about bump travel. When I arrived at the track, I reached around the wheels and pulled the bump stops down against the tops of the shocks. The Fox bump stops hug the shock rods tightly and stay put, so you can use them measure bump travel without using zip ties. At the end of the day, I noted their location. The front bump stops had about 3/16" of space between them and the top hats on both sides. So, I never hit the bump stops in the front. That means the 550# front springs at a ride height of 4.75" is enough for this track. The rears had zero clearance, which means I did hit them. I knew that in advance, because I felt it a few times, but it was not abrupt, and did not upset the car. A little more rear spring or a little more positive rake might be worth trying, but any change back there is not a priority, since it was not problematic. FM Fox coilovers come with a number of bump stop spacers. I did not use any of them.

[/edit]

Radiator and Cooling

There isn't much to say here, considering how cool it was outside. I have not dived deeply into the data yet, but skimming it appears to show I reached a max temp of a little over 200F and leveled off there every session. I still won't know how much actual cooling capacity I have until July, but it looks good so far.

Lap Times

This took me by surprise for some reason. Probably because I did not pay any attention to lap times or data during the day. The car felt really fast. It wasn't. I was almost exactly 3 seconds off my personal best in the RX-8 in both directions. The better power to weight ratio of the 8 is enough to overcome the slightly better cornering ability of the Miata. Of course, 3+ years of experience tracking that car doesn't hurt either. Another possible factor is, it has been roughly 6 months since I have had a full-speed track day due to poor weather. I have to be rusty.

Photos

I didn't take many. Sorry.

Video

I did take as much video as my SD cards would allow. I haven't gone through any of it yet, but I'll look for anything interesting enough to post. In the mean time, I did isolate the one Spinderella moment I had. This was during the 6th session, I was tired, and I wasn't even driving very hard. The only thing I can figure is, I hit some dirt or grass from where other people had run off the track there. The oversteer took me totally by surprise, and I couldn't correct it. Fortunately, there was no damage, although my alignment settings are probably a little off now.

https://youtu.be/UmlUUnn_xbs

.

SteveDallas
SteveDallas New Reader
2/15/17 3:03 p.m.

I still have not had much time to dig into data or video, but here is a quick and dirty look at my coolant and intake air temps from session 6 at 3:00PM when the ambient temp was 67F.

Coolant looks good.

IAT could be better at a delta of 17F above ambient. I'll have to do the math to see how much improvement might come from bringing IAT down somehow.

These data were logged by Harry's Lap Timer, which I was mainly using to shoot video for its overlay capabilities. Its resolution isn't that great for data logging, but it does give a decent idea of what is happening.

SteveDallas
SteveDallas New Reader
2/17/17 9:37 p.m.

Seats

Realizing that seats would be the next priority early on, I took the opportunity to plant my butt in as many seats as car owners would let me during that track day. The seat my bad back liked the most turned out to be economical and light: the Corbeau FX1 Pro. I am 5'10" and 160lbs and have a 32 - 33" waist, and this seat fits me with barely room to spare. It isn't too tight, like the Recaro Profi, and it will hold me tightly enough to solve the holding-on-for-dear-life problem. The seat plus Planted Miata brackets only set me back $454 shipped. I'll try this one out, and purchase a second one for the passenger side if I like it. The only potential issue I can see is lack of lumbar support, but very few seats that will fit a Miata have good lumbar support, and a well-placed, rolled-up hand towel can take care of that.

Soon.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
2/17/17 11:47 p.m.

You may have trouble clearing the door panels with the "wings" on that seat. Also, pull the padding out of the base cushion and replace it with Confor blue 1" foam or Backsaver foam from Pegasus. Drops you down lower and improves comfort dramatically.

NordicSaab
NordicSaab HalfDork
2/18/17 7:28 a.m.

I assumed it is not possible to fit an FX1 in an NB without either a) notching the tunnel or b) mouning the seat off center of the steering wheel.

Looking forward to your install.

Rodan
Rodan Reader
2/18/17 8:10 a.m.
Keith Tanner wrote: You may have trouble clearing the door panels with the "wings" on that seat. Also, pull the padding out of the base cushion and replace it with Confor blue 1" foam or Backsaver foam from Pegasus. Drops you down lower and improves comfort dramatically.

And don't forget cutting off the bottom mounting bosses... ;)

I had to do some trans tunnel 'massaging', but with the PCI brackets, they center up on the wheel in my NA.

SteveDallas
SteveDallas New Reader
2/18/17 8:23 a.m.

Good info on the foam. I'll keep that in mind. I thought I might do something like that to add a little lumbar support to the back cushion, instead of using the dish towel method. All of the cushions in this seat Velcro in, so modifications to cushions should be a simple matter.

As for fit, all we can do is wait and see. I called Corbeau and two suppliers, and they all said the smaller Pro version will just fit with no modifications to the car. My tape measure agrees (barely), but you never know until you actually try.

Since this seat is fiberglass, modifications to the seat itself should be easily do-able as well. If I need to lose 1/4" off the wings, for example, I can make quick work of that.

Finding a seat that fits both me and this Miata is a lot more challenging than I realized. I scoured a few forums looking for info on seats that are known to fit, but few were still made, within my price range, not aluminum, known to be comfortable, about 14" at the hips. This seat is the starting point I decided to try.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
2/18/17 10:03 a.m.

Sparco has a couple of good options, FYI. One is FIA rated.

I have the FX1 Pros in the Targa Miata and we've seen a couple come through the shop.

SteveDallas
SteveDallas New Reader
2/18/17 10:13 a.m.

Which Sparcos fit? I sat in a Sprint and did not find it comfortable. I guess I could always re-foam it, but I remember the the bucket being too narrow, and the sides being very high, and ingress and egress very difficult for a guy with a bad back. The rest of their seats in my price range (trying to keep both seats and bases around $1200) do not have side mounts, are too narrow for my hips, or are too big for the car, from what I see on their sizing chart.

FIA is desirable, of course, but not required for HPDE.

Rodan
Rodan Reader
2/18/17 11:52 a.m.

FX1 Pro and Sprint will both fit. Sprint is the only Sparco under ~$750 that is FIA, but like you, I found them uncomfortable. I ultimately settled on the FX1 Pro. I rode in Keith's car a couple years ago at FM, so I knew they'd fit in the car, and I fit in them. I wasn't ready to spend the $$ for an FIA seat for HPDE at this point.

Some useful threads:

MT Race seat thread

MT seats that fit thread

MNet race seat thread

Ninja edit: Corbeau also has the Forza Sport that is FIA rated, but it's a steel tube seat like the Sparco Sprint, so I didn't think it would be as comfortable as the FX1 Pro. I also couldn't find any Miata install evidence. FWIW, I got my FX1 Pros for ~$640 shipped for the pair.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
2/18/17 12:06 p.m.

I had to put a dent in the door structure to get my Pros to fit in the car. That plus a bunch of other work. You can make it work, but they're not a drop-in.

There are two Sparcos, the Speed and the Sprint IIRC. Only one has an FIA rating. I've found that they're comfortable for a lot of people, but of course seats are like shoes and not one-size-fits-all.

codrus
codrus GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
2/18/17 3:02 p.m.

Take a look at the Recaro Pole Position NG. I have the original Pole Positions in my car -- they had the FIA cert revoked for some reason (mine were already expired by that point, so I didn't really care), and the NG is the revised version. I believe it's the same dimensions, and it fits pretty well in a Miata.

SteveDallas
SteveDallas New Reader
2/18/17 5:33 p.m.
Rodan wrote: FX1 Pro and Sprint will both fit. Sprint is the only Sparco under ~$750 that is FIA, but like you, I found them uncomfortable. I ultimately settled on the FX1 Pro. I rode in Keith's car a couple years ago at FM, so I knew they'd fit in the car, and I fit in them. I wasn't ready to spend the $$ for an FIA seat for HPDE at this point. Some useful threads: MT Race seat thread MT seats that fit thread MNet race seat thread Ninja edit: Corbeau also has the Forza Sport that is FIA rated, but it's a steel tube seat like the Sparco Sprint, so I didn't think it would be as comfortable as the FX1 Pro. I also couldn't find any Miata install evidence. FWIW, I got my FX1 Pros for ~$640 shipped for the pair.

Thanks for the info. I have read those threads, but somehow I missed the work needed to get the FX1 Pro to fit in the driver's side. I may take a different approach and modify the seat instead of the car. Fiberglass is easy to work with grinders and sanders, and I believe there is nothing structural in the areas where I would remove material. If I am going to grind off the bottom mounting bosses, why not clip the wings a bit and create some space for the transmission tunnel? My mother is a sewing whiz, and she would probably love to re-fit the covers for me if needed, as a 75 year-old member of my "race team".

Any reason not to consider grinding the seat to fit?

Keith Tanner wrote: I had to put a dent in the door structure to get my Pros to fit in the car. That plus a bunch of other work. You can make it work, but they're not a drop-in. There are two Sparcos, the Speed and the Sprint IIRC. Only one has an FIA rating. I've found that they're comfortable for a lot of people, but of course seats are like shoes and not one-size-fits-all.

I don't think the Speed is made any longer. I sat in a Sprint, and it took a shoe horn to wedge me in. I'm not a big guy, but my hips do not squeeze into 13" seats with any degree of comfort. Then, there are the other issues I noted.

codrus wrote: Take a look at the Recaro Pole Position NG. I have the original Pole Positions in my car -- they had the FIA cert revoked for some reason (mine were already expired by that point, so I didn't really care), and the NG is the revised version. I believe it's the same dimensions, and it fits pretty well in a Miata.

The Pole Position NG looks like an ideal solution, and I considered it. I actually helped a friend install a Pole Position in his S2000. The regular PP is too small for me, of course, but the NG should fit me perfectly. Unfortunately, the cost of one seat plus one bracket consumes my entire budget for both seats and brackets, unless I get lucky and find one used for a song.

Back to analysis paralysis, I suppose.

Rodan
Rodan Reader
2/18/17 6:07 p.m.
SteveDallas wrote: Thanks for the info. I have read those threads, but somehow I missed the work needed to get the FX1 Pro to fit in the driver's side. I may take a different approach and modify the seat instead of the car. Fiberglass is easy to work with grinders and sanders, and I believe there is nothing structural in the areas where I would remove material. If I am going to grind off the bottom mounting bosses, why not clip the wings a bit and create some space for the transmission tunnel? My mother is a sewing whiz, and she would probably love to re-fit the covers for me if needed, as a 75 year-old member of my "race team".

FWIW, with the PCI mount, installation was pretty easy in my NA. The bottom mount bosses need to be cut off, and I had to 'massage' the trans tunnel with a BFH. That's it. The PCI mount moves the seat far enough toward the center of the car that the wings just barely contact the door card cushion. Bonus is being centered on the steering wheel.

Here's a shot of the mount, you can see how far inboard it positions the seat:

Even so, clearancing the trans tunnel was just a matter of a few minutes with the hammer. I'm not sure if the NB is significantly different in that area... that would be the only issue.

SteveDallas
SteveDallas New Reader
2/18/17 6:25 p.m.

More great info. Thanks. I'm not shy about using my BFH in areas like the trans tunnel. I ordered a Planted SB255 bracket set. It may or may not work, but it looks to be adjustable in pretty much every direction.

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