UK '91 Camaro

Here we go then...

To start, I am a long time lurker/first time poster who has been inspired by all of these incredible builds and projects.

Now to start my own thread...

Last Sunday I picked up this '91 Camaro RS from Gravesend in Kent and drove it 50 or so miles home without hitch. It is a manual 305 TBI car with T-Tops, cruise control and electric windows. I paid £6,500 (~$8,600) for it which probably makes me seem insane to most of you, however, with the prices of classic cars in the UK through the roof, it is actually extremely reasonable considering the fortune the previous owner spent on Eibach springs, thick anti-roll bars, Stoptech front brakes including calipers,  Hooker shorty headers and replacing the entire bonnet with a horrible steel aftermarket one as the original had rusted through at the front.

It has 51k original miles and the interior is like new other than for 3 cigarette burns (two on the drivers seat base and one on the drivers door arm rest. The exterior is pretty good but far from perfect. That said, it is pretty much rust free and the T-tops do not leak so I will take that.

The Camaro will be replacing my '69 Ranchero 302 Auto that I got bored with as it was a bit to original and not the greatest starting point for a proper project. It is great to finally be back with a manual after 3 years of driving an Auto.  The aim is to build a fast and fun daily driver, the challenge being to keep it on the road as it is my only car.

Apologies for the rainy photos, they are par for the course over here...

Welcome aboard!  Looking forward to seeing this take shape.

Can't see the pictures.

Welcome! I find it interesting when people outside of the USA take a liking to one of our more domestically oriented vehicles.

Was the Camaro available in the UK at dealerships when new?

DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

Can't see the pictures.

Thanks, they do not show on my phone either. I will have a look later.

RossD said:

Welcome! I find it interesting when people outside of the USA take a liking to one of our more domestically oriented vehicles.

Was the Camaro available in the UK at dealerships when new?

Not available over here, both the Camaro and Ranchero would have been imported privately or by one of the many import companies that by US cars and ship them over here specifically to sell.

The Ranchero came over in 2010 as one of these companies brought it from the original owner in Tennessee. It was then brought from them at the docks by the previous owner and I picked it up in 2016.

As for the Camaro, I do not know when it came over but it sat for 16 years over here before the previous owner picked it up and  proceeded to spend a ton of money on it but barely use it for 2.5 years.

To be honest, I am not specifically into American cars, I am into anything classic but with the companies bringing over so many cars the flooded market seems to be keeping the prices down compared to everything else so comparatively you are getting alot of car for your money, especially as most of the cars have a fraction of the amount of rust that original UK cars do.

Do they salt the roads in the UK? I realize there aren't the kind of snow events over there that we see in the U.S. but is there freezing rain and ice? Or is the rust simply due to the constant moisture?

GCrites80s said:

Do they salt the roads in the UK? I realize there aren't the kind of snow events over there that we see in the U.S. but is there freezing rain and ice? Or is the rust simply due to the constant moisture?

Yes, they salt the roads over here. November to February are the common months. That and the amount of rain and damp mornings we get year round means that cars rust pretty badly. Some small cheaply made 80's and 90's stuff struggled to last 8-10 years from new without starting to suffer with it.

All That Ranchero Needs is a 390 and a 4 speed Your Intrest will Pick back up.

I do Kinda Like them.

Sounds like a good car. I have a '91 Firebird myself.

Check out thirdgen.org for lots of good information.

A pair of subframe connectors and torque arm relocation member will improve the ride and handling for fairly little money and effort. Get a wanderbar too. (That's a brace the goes under the chassis near the front sway bar)

Unless it's been changed, the rear diff is an open unit with a 3.08 gear ratio. A 3.42 with limited slip would be the next upgrade.

The 305 TBI isn't real powerful but it's simple and reliable. An LT1 cam swap, large air cleaner and good exhaust will get you about 200hp (stock is 170).

^Yes, thridgen.org even has a special section for Europe/UK. Be sure to register to get rid of the crazy pop ups.

It's interesting that it's so expensive to buy a 3rd gen Camaro there, because I see cars in videos of banger racing that would be $5-10K cars in the USA.

Tk8398 said:

It's interesting that it's so expensive to buy a 3rd gen Camaro there, because I see cars in videos of banger racing that would be $5-10K cars in the USA.

Almost everything classic car wise is expensive over here. I have always wanted a Mk3 Triumph GT6 but it us new hard to get an average condition one for less than £8-10k now. American cars seem to be lagging behind a little bit at the moment due to the amount being imported. Even late classic Rover sports pack Mini's (1998-2002) are getting on for £10k now for a reasonably nice one!

I will be listing the Ranchero at £7,500 or £8,000 ONO most likely and it is far from pretty but mechanically it is a daily driver.

Some of those banger racing cars are way lower trim levels than were available at all in the U.S. What looks like a 180hp 2.5 liter car is actually a 85hp 1.4 liter version.

Gearheadotaku said:

Sounds like a good car. I have a '91 Firebird myself.

Check out thirdgen.org for lots of good information.

A pair of subframe connectors and torque arm relocation member will improve the ride and handling for fairly little money and effort. Get a wanderbar too. (That's a brace the goes under the chassis near the front sway bar)

Unless it's been changed, the rear diff is an open unit with a 3.08 gear ratio. A 3.42 with limited slip would be the next upgrade.

The 305 TBI isn't real powerful but it's simple and reliable. An LT1 cam swap, large air cleaner and good exhaust will get you about 200hp (stock is 170).

Thanks for the tip on the cam, it fits in nicely with my longer term plan of; getting the 305 onto a carb with a decent intake and a cam, then building up a 350 or something that will be as near to 100% interchangable with the 305 as possible so I can 'develop' the 350 out of the car by throwing the 305 back in as and when required.

Will the 305 TBI springs be suitable for use with the LT1 cam or should I throw some heavier duty ones in whilst I am at it?

ill probably have a stock lt1 cam soon, id give you for shipping but Im in 'Merica so thats probably expensive

I wish the pics would show up for me. They just show up as empty space, maybe it's a permission issue.

This should be entertaining, I grew up in the Sussex countryside and always thought it might be fun to try and pilot a giant American muscle car down one of their little country lanes. At the very least it should turn heads in town.

Suns out! T-Tops out!

In reply to ep16 :

Still no pics. I need proof of sun in England

TurnerX19 said:

In reply to ep16 :

Still no pics. I need proof of sun in England

Ha! Images should work now...

Yes, you will want new valve springs with the cam swap. (and some valve seal too) Sorry don't have the part number handy, but its not anything super special or expensive. Again, third gen . org will have some good info.

If you are going to a carb, I would look into a set of Vortec heads at the same time.  The 305 and 350 use different heads. While they will bolt up, the valves and combustion chamber are different and won't run right on the wrong engine. (305 heads on a 350 engine - too small of a valve, too small of a chamber. Runs fine at low speed but quickly runs out of breath. 350 head on a 305, chamber too big, loses a lot of compression ratio, big loss of power. Note: these will require a specific intake manifold. Again, not hard to find or expensive, just be sure to get one that is correct.

If you are going to build a 350 I would leave the 305 alone. No sense in doing everything twice. 

The T5 could use a little help holding up to the 350. One of these braces can make a big difference in its lifespan.

http://www.thegearbox.org/catalog/item/3819132/4723740.htm

Here is the build thread for my car. Not many changed lately, but I still have it.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/91-firebird-305/60859/page1/

Tk8398 said:

It's interesting that it's so expensive to buy a 3rd gen Camaro there, because I see cars in videos of banger racing that would be $5-10K cars in the USA.

Yeah well, there are no longer any unmolested, 5 spd, third gen camaros in the U.S either. Not cheap at least. Good luck finding a 5 spd RS like OP's in the US for any reasonable price.

The late 80's IROCs (which only came in 5spd in the 305 cars) all go for $6-8K or more if they are in any decent condition. Most RSs (91-92) were automatics as the RS was the typical secretary car and performance buyers went with the Z28 (Z28 replaced IROC in 91-92 but again the 350 TPI was only available from the factory with the 700R4 auto).

Either way, third gen manual cars are super cool!!!

Pics work now. Brilliant! I'll relive my childhood dreams vicariously through this thread.

It's definitely the right color.

Found a US compatriot in a carpark the other day...makes me wonder why Ford waited until the current generation to officially import Mustangs in RHD as they seem to be everywhere!

Spent yesterday morning carrying out the fix main fix to the Camaro.

Since I picked it up the tach has been reading very high (cold idle at 3k, hot idle 1500, heavy blip and the needle pegged) which is a common issue on later third gens. The problem is caused by the resistors in the computer chip that controls the tach burning out so I ordered a replacement from cajuntachshop on eBay for £26.90 + £9.93 shipping to the UK from Louisiana (not including the £12.47 import duty paid at checkout) which is extremely reasonable. It is a reworked design that comes pre-calibrated but has some fine adjustment. The failed OE part is on the left and the  reworked one on the right, the small brass adjuster can be seen in the blue housing.

Installation required some disassembly of the cluster and binnacle but complete removal of the cluster is not required, just to the point where the 'glass' and the trim for the gauges themselves is removed. Then it is just a case of pulling out the old computer chip in the bottom left corner and pushing the old one home.

I then screwed the cluster back in with the entire front trim for a test fire. Once the idle had settled after the cold start sequence the tach registered in the 550-600 range against a rock steady 750 showing on a timing light, but nothing a quick twiddle of the adjustment screw could not fix.

Then it was just a job of screwing everything back together.

I remembered to disconnect the battery whilst carrying out the swap, as to remove the cluster you have to remove the headlight switch, which you have to do from the ON position meaning the headlights will be on the entire time you work.

One job down, many to go...