I'm casually looking for a winter car to keep salt off the F-150. As winter nears the casualness will intensify.....
Small is better as it will sit in the garage all summer. The plan is to slightly lift the car and go for really good snows. Only requirements are not large and it has to have a stick. I prefer FWD for winters. I'd like your thoughts-experiences with some of these cars, always open to suggestions.
Legacy? I know nothing about Subies.
Thanks foryour help.
My suggestion for a winter car is look for weight distribution, driving on snow is like pavement at 12/10ths so balance is everything. I have every configuration of winter beater, all with the best snow tires. I’ll rank them from best to worst.
E34 BMW, manual.
85 RX7, manual
V70 XC / Subaru auto.
89 four runner auto V6
Maxima
Jeep GC
OTHERS but these show the pattern.
I gen 1 Focus with good winter tires does well in the snow...based on 1st hand experience.
The best, most fun winter car I have had was an 84 RX7 GSL (Limited slip) with Haaka's.
In reply to 914Driver :
There is a ton of small to medium sized SUV’s that will be priced right. Then you don’t need to worry about lifting it etc.
Cars really haven’t had the attention spent on them to be as good as the better SUV’s are. Their market share and volume is too small.
Getting exactly what you want will cost a premium. Sort of like stepping over a dollar to pick up a nickel because the nickle is shiny.
For snow feel is everything, my Pathfinder goes fine in the snow but needs nanny’s to keep it on the road. Proper road feel is better than size and height.
Picture any vehicle that you want for snow then think how will this feel at 150 mph in the rain with 1000hp that’s what ice an snow is like at 80 in a suv with 200 hp.
My Volvo was the most stable in a straight line in the slush. To evade disasters give me the BMW or similar balanced car any day.
I absolutely despise FWD in the snow, fine for snowy or plowed roads. When E36 M3 gets deep give me stable and predictable or big and slow, but I don’t like slow.
A great vehicle that I had through a very harsh and deep snow winter was a Saturn Vue. I wrote about my ownership in this build thread: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/teach-me-saturn-vue/63231/page1/
The only version I recommend is a 4cyl, fwd, 5 speed manual trans. In general the Saturn Vue has a bad reputation because...
'02-'04 the automatic trans on the 4 cyl was a CVT with had horrible reliability (trans failure at 60k common)
02 & 03 the 3.0L V6 was a bad Opel design also shared with the Cadillac Caters
04-07 the V6 was a Honda 3.5L (good) that shared the same bad transmission that plagued early Honda Odyssey.
The 4cyl with manual trans was really just a combination of good GM-parts bin. The 2.2L was used in tons of cars like Cobalt, Malibu, HHR, etc. The manual trans was also used in many of those same cars. For your winter use, the body panels are plastic. The last Saturn offered with plastic. this means that though there still may be rust underneath, in general the body will look fantastic keeping you form the appearance of driving a full beater. The ride height is generally high. I ran General AtricMax tires. The combination of ground clearance and traction combined with a low torque (low wheel spin) was great.
I can not stress the next piece enough...the Vue had near perfect egress. The ride height put the seat at perfect but height. I neither had to climb up to the seat not fall down to the seat. This was combined with a really flat floor meaning no foot wells. You do not have to lift a leg to get out of the car.
Saturn sold a ton of the manual trans Vues. Furthermore, they were a good drivetrain combo so may are still on the road. But, do not under estimate how un-desirable they are to the general public. Lets face it, very few people are looking for a cute-ute that is only fwd and then in generally underpowered with just a 4 cyl and then is a stick shift. This undesirablity can be translated into very cheap prices. Watch your auctions, these cars with manual trans are given away.
If you can, try to get a '06 or '07 model. These years have an updated interior which is nicer (but still rather plain.)
A typical example that is still overpriced at $1,900
The Kia Soul was also offered with a manual trans in a pretty basic trim level. These are also very cheap since they are a non-sporty car w/ a manual trans.
Real Sample: https://worcester.craigslist.org/cto/d/marlborough-2010-kia-soul-miles/6899734485.html
In reply to John Welsh :
I agree with your comments about Saturn in general and the Vue in particular. I taught my 16 year old daughter to drive a manual Saturn and 25 + years approaching 300,000 miles she traded it in. No mechanical work, other than brakes. Those was a matter of replacing pads as needed. No calipers or rotors. Still had the factory clutch ( although it was starting to feel a bit soft)
Looked respectable even though it had been completely ignored it’s whole life. School, then college, Career, marriage and children, Maybe getting a wash job every other year or so. Maybe every other month a vacuum was used on the interior to clean up the mess made by kids.
Zx2, seriously.
My wife drove mine for the winter with studs, she was stunned how well it did and when I drove it.....so was I
Cheap, comes with a manual, gets good mpg and is fairly quick for what it is
Thanks guys, good stuff. My neighbor will be selling her bigass MBenz AWD wagon soon as she really shouldn't be driving. Kinda big, I think.
However, my friend Wendy has one of these and LOVES it. Needs timing belt and temp sensor. Thoughts?
If that Volvo is a 2000 run, if it's a 99 or older, just walk.
I can only paraphrase because I do not know the specifics but on the Volvos XCs of this era, the transfer case (which is not called a transfer case but something else) is weak. Most still on the road have had the rwd portion removed and just run as a fwd vehicle now.
I had a '95 Volvo 850 wagon that I really liked. The following year when they became OBD2 compliant they were known for becoming more trouble prone.
Volvo offered tan leather and charcoal leather. In general, the charcoal leather is far superior in quality than the tan. The tan is more prone to cracks and tears. The tan also generally looks more haggard. The charcoal is tough as nails. In some low option Volvos they also offered cloth which is very durable too.
In reply to John Welsh :
Yes the bevel gear is what you are talking about. The gears themselves are fine but there is a splined coupler that is made out of butter. I replaced mine with an upgraded one, cheap and fairly easy to change and well worth the effort for how well they drift when on boost.
I know where your ideal car is but if you are talking snow it is probably too far away: 2004 Subaru Forester here in Gainesville, FL. I looked at it and almost bought it but decided to keep looking for a newer car. This Forester has a manual transmission, A/C, a tiny bit of rust bubbling on the hood, and a great, low mileage JDM 2 liter engine. I am not affiliated but for anyone interested it can be seen on D&L PERFORMANCE website. They also have an 04 Legacy wagon but with automatic that looks pretty sharp.
Per that list, focus+snow tires=not bad.
My MK2-5 golfs where very meh in the snow and my Mazda 3 was nothing to write about.
Mrs. 914 came home the other day and asked if I really wanted a winter car. Of course.
Her 92 year old mother hasn't driven her Maxima in a year or so, lets put some aggressive sneakers on it for you.
I don't like the car, but the price is right. White 2008 Maxima, tan interior, 54,000 miles. It's boring but warm.
Dan
In reply to 914Driver :
Is this "beater with a heater" also "rusty but trusty"? I always laugh when I see those phrases in CL ads. 
If the Maxima is a high option model, it may even have a steering wheel heater to go with the seat heaters. Not a bad way to spend the winter!
I dunno, really rather have a Tercel or something. If only I could get paperwork on the 96, the world would be back on its axis.
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