NMNA: Big Block Jagggg

In reply to Patrick (Forum Supporter) :

It’ll never get off the ground, Orville... 

In reply to 03Panther :

No, but it's amusing that stampie is having an internet cock-off with a guy 1500 miles away 

SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:

Stampie may win this without building anything. 

Quoted for truth, and I only have one thumbs up to give it.

Frenchyd continues to be JUST a talking head, internet troll.

Frenchyd, prove me wrong, build and race something.

Just for you Cherrod

SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:

Stampie may win this without building anything. 

We'll see in 2022. That's when Stampie agreed to come up here. If He shows up with a stock big block he'll get a race. 

Patrick (Forum Supporter) said:

 

 

Just for you Cherrod

The last one really took me out! 

Patrick (Forum Supporter) said:

I already agreed to Stampie's $500 no forced induction.  Stampie doesn't like it because that leaves him $50. 
while I have enough to use my reground cams. And bigger intake valves. 
 

My counter offer was he brings a stock BBC and I'll leave mine stock too.  He doesn't like that because he's not dumb. 

frenchyd said:

SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:

Stampie may win this without building anything. 

We'll see in 2022. That's when Stampie agreed to come up here. If He shows up with a stock big block he'll get a race. 

So, you’ve not read any of this thread? The whole argument you have presented is “I can build more HP with a v12, cheaper”. I don’t see the word stock in that statement anywhere

frenchyd said:

I already agreed to Stampie's $500 no forced induction.  Stampie doesn't like it because that leaves him $50. 
while I have enough to use my reground cams. And bigger intake valves. 
 

My counter offer was he brings a stock BBC and I'll leave mine stock too.  He doesn't like that because he's not dumb. 

That you did not propose till after many pages of saying something else entirely.  

Patrick (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to 03Panther :

No, but it's amusing that stampie is having an internet cock-off with a guy 1500 miles away 

At least I choose to bring a BBC to a cock off. 

pres589 (djronnebaum) said:

I don't think there was a special "truck block" version of the 454, either, so that doesn't matter like it might with a 366 or 427.

Yes the 366/ 427 truck block was a tall deck Hi nickel content block. 4 bolt mains and forged crank. 
the problem is getting intake manifolds that for because" Tall Deck" spreads the ports further apart. 
They used to build "mountain " motors with them for IHRA type pro stock. 

Indy "Nub" Guy said:

Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:

I'm betting it has more grunt than you think. The motor home block might have forged internals depending on age. Should be north of 300hp and damn near 500 torque as it sits. It's a cam, headers, and intake away from ripping the rear end out of the Jag. Throw a set of heads in to the mix and hold the hell on. 

Roadkill's Draguar has had plenty of problems with the cooling, engine, and transmission, but no mention of the Jag rearend letting go.  They're running 600-ish hp and slicks.

The engine was a Chevy not a Jaguar. 

frenchyd said:

Indy "Nub" Guy said:

Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:

I'm betting it has more grunt than you think. The motor home block might have forged internals depending on age. Should be north of 300hp and damn near 500 torque as it sits. It's a cam, headers, and intake away from ripping the rear end out of the Jag. Throw a set of heads in to the mix and hold the hell on. 

Roadkill's Draguar has had plenty of problems with the cooling, engine, and transmission, but no mention of the Jag rearend letting go.  They're running 600-ish hp and slicks.

The engine was a Chevy not a Jaguar. 

Pretty sure he was referring to that nearly 700hp engine not killing the stock diff in that XJ12. 

Daylan C (Forum Supporter) said:

frenchyd said:

Indy "Nub" Guy said:

Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:

I'm betting it has more grunt than you think. The motor home block might have forged internals depending on age. Should be north of 300hp and damn near 500 torque as it sits. It's a cam, headers, and intake away from ripping the rear end out of the Jag. Throw a set of heads in to the mix and hold the hell on. 

Roadkill's Draguar has had plenty of problems with the cooling, engine, and transmission, but no mention of the Jag rearend letting go.  They're running 600-ish hp and slicks.

The engine was a Chevy not a Jaguar. 

Pretty sure he was referring to that nearly 700hp engine not killing the stock diff in that XJ12.

Yes.  That's exactly my point. Stock diff is beefy  

In reply to Daylan C (Forum Supporter) :

Yup those jag diffs are tough

Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:

In reply to frenchyd :

I hate to break it to you, but there are minivans with almost 325 hp. My pickup truck has 385. Can you get 1000 HP out of a Jag V12? How about 600? Can you do that for less than $10K.

Here are some for instances from the Googles. These are arbitrary part pulled from Google shopping searches and off the first page. 

Cam kit Jag V12. $850. BBC $146. SBC $111 LSx $280

Heads Jag stock rebuilt, no performance parts to be found. $515 each. BBC $997 pair SBC $500 pair LSx $799 pair

Intake None to be found though there was a Weber carb setup for $4600. BBC $210 SBC $149 LSx $179. 

Headers. Jag V12. $1995.00. BBC $152 SBC $129 LSx $203

I love rotary engines. That doesn't mean I want to spend $5000 to make 400 hp when I can do the same for $2000 and a Chevy engine. And now we know why so many RX7s have Chevy engines. 

 

 

Toyman01. Yes new engines are better more powerful. I've never argued that. But I know I can't buy a good new one for $300 or less. 
Can I get 1000 horsepower out of a Jag?  Yes if I start with a New one with 670 horsepower.  
 The prices you quoted for Jaguar parts are for people who don't do their own work.  Check book mechanics.  Bring your truck into a dealership and have them do the work you asked about. 
 

yupididit said:

frenchyd said:

In reply to 03Panther :

That's correct. But somehow people seem to think the reason to not take advantage of the cheap cost of a V12 is it's cheaper to make X amount of power With whatever. 

 

But it is though 

Maybe,  but if it's been done and done and done.  All you are doing is following the crowd.  

frenchyd said:

SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:

Stampie may win this without building anything. 

We'll see in 2022. That's when Stampie agreed to come up here. If He shows up with a stock big block he'll get a race. 

The point was bbc/sbc/ls vs v12 both with cheap power adders. 

Now you want him to go stock while you use your mods?

Or you want stock vs stock (possible cheater cams)? Which was not the point of this 12 page discussion. 

frenchyd said:

yupididit said:

frenchyd said:

In reply to 03Panther :

That's correct. But somehow people seem to think the reason to not take advantage of the cheap cost of a V12 is it's cheaper to make X amount of power With whatever. 

 

But it is though 

Maybe,  but if it's been done and done and done.  All you are doing is following the crowd.  

You're replying to my post from page 3, a post you already replied to back on page 3. Are you just cluttering up the thread now or you've forgetten the last 10 pages of post?

SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to frenchyd :

You may very well be able to build the better motor. In fact, I'd put my $10 on you. 
 

However if FMV for anything currently owned by a competitor will be decided by Challenge rules,  then you are gonna lose. That's Stampie's home turf in a game you've never played.

He'll have a new rule named after him before it is all over. 

I'll grant that.  Both because Stampie's experience and because my near complete lack of experiance in what is being measured. 
Besides Stampie is right. Compared to a lot of cars A Jaguar is big. Bigger cars have to travel further around the cones. 
That's why one of my original rules was the BBC had to be available  in the car raced. No BBC Vega. I said. 
 

We eventually agreed to either put his BBC in my car or he could buy his own JaguarXJS. And put it in. 

In reply to yupididit :

I'm just responding to your comment.  

yupididit said:

frenchyd said:

SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:

Stampie may win this without building anything. 

We'll see in 2022. That's when Stampie agreed to come up here. If He shows up with a stock big block he'll get a race. 

 

The point was bbc/sbc/ls vs v12 both with cheap power adders. 

Now you want him to go stock while you use your mods?

Or you want stock vs stock (possible cheater cams)? Which was not the point of this 12 page discussion. 

I offered stock to stock several times. cams on all three engines are very easy to check 

If you go back to July 5th Stampie offered a $300 engine limit.  Which would exclude his BBC since he has $450 in it. 
 

yupididit said:

frenchyd said:

SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:

Stampie may win this without building anything. 

We'll see in 2022. That's when Stampie agreed to come up here. If He shows up with a stock big block he'll get a race. 

 

The point was bbc/sbc/ls vs v12 both with cheap power adders. 

Now you want him to go stock while you use your mods?

Or you want stock vs stock (possible cheater cams)? Which was not the point of this 12 page discussion. 

$500 limit no boost. OK 

$300 limit no boost. OK  Stampie offered on July 5  

Stock. To Stock OK 

I offered the use of my XJS to eliminate  the chassis variable.    
My starting Premise was that a Jaguar was a better, cheaper option than a Chevy. 
So far the discussion has pretty well proven it.  

SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:

Stampie may win this without building anything. 

My original statement ( going back to 2014) was a Jaguar is a better cheaper race car than a comparable Chevy.

    Ask yourself what is the going market price for a rust free decent paint, decent interior complete Big block Camaro or Firebird?  

 I paid $500 for my XJS and have seen several for near that price.   I just passed on a Yellow one from England for $1000. That had the more powerful spec motor ( 299vs 262 hp) plus a few upgrades. 

I've stopped looking  but I'm sure they are still out there much cheaper than a Camaro or Firebird