In reply to Stampie (FS) :
Because someone replaced a junk Jag V12 with one.
In reply to Stampie (FS) :
Because someone replaced a junk Jag V12 with one.
Stampie (FS) said:In reply to frenchyd :
Why do you hate BBC so much?
You can't find a single comment where I say bad things about Chevy engines. ( well except they are like belly buttons, everybody's got one )
I've owned Chevy's all my life. They are decently reliable transportation. I've even built and raced a Corvette ( and no I didn't put a Jag V12 in it )
to renew my national license.
I just want to clarify the dishonest impression people got from the pre SAE ratings days. No all 454's did not make 450 horsepower. No they don't last forever. They are not terribly reliable either. Chevy dealerships have very busy service departments.
People put an aftermarket valve covers, and maybe intake manifold and carburetor on them and think they have 700 horsepower and last forever.
It's very similar to the Ford Flathead days. Back in the late 50's Ford flatheads with a pair of edelbrock heads and maybe a couple of extra carbs claimed massively exaggerated horsepower numbers when most OHV V8's made more power.
Stampie (FS) said:In reply to frenchyd :
Why do you hate BBC so much?
Because, he thinks if he types all that then it'll deter people from Chevy v8 swapping his beloved v12 jaguars. Thus, considering them "lumps".
Frenchy only has about 10 things to say overall, so you don't really have to read his long post to know what he says. We still love him though
Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:In reply to Stampie (FS) :
Because someone replaced a junk Jag V12 with one.
Toyman ; you strike me as a practical person. Have you ever taken a V12 apart or even owned one? If you have you would never call a Jaguar V12 Junk.
Maybe you're referring to an engine someone ignorant tried to fix and ruined. Or neglected and destroyed it. That happens. It's extremely wasteful considering what they cost originally. I think we'd both consider that a great waste. But has next to nothing to do with the car itself.
Volkswagen Rabbits had EFI. The same EFI early Jaguars started with. A lot of early VW Rabbits went to the junkyard early because mechanics took a while to learn about EFI
Right up to the point where OBD2 came out and mechanics learned where to plug in. From the late 70's through the 80's good solid cars were prematurely junked.
yupididit said:Stampie (FS) said:In reply to frenchyd :
Why do you hate BBC so much?
Because, he thinks if he types all that then it'll deter people from Chevy v8 swapping his beloved v12 jaguars. Thus, considering them "lumps".
Frenchy only has about 10 things to say overall, so you don't really have to read his long post to know what he says. We still love him though
It's like transplanting a Ford engine into a Corvette. It will fit and run but why do it?
frenchyd said:yupididit said:Stampie (FS) said:In reply to frenchyd :
Why do you hate BBC so much?
Because, he thinks if he types all that then it'll deter people from Chevy v8 swapping his beloved v12 jaguars. Thus, considering them "lumps".
Frenchy only has about 10 things to say overall, so you don't really have to read his long post to know what he says. We still love him though
It's like transplanting a Ford engine into a Corvette. It will fit and run but why do it?
To piss off guys like you who consider it impure.
I think a ford engine in a corvette would be way cool... but it'd be the expensive way to get to cool! Always cracks me up to see folks that think a SBC (or now LS) belongs in EVERYTHING, but their heads explode if someone swaps a (X) into a GM of any description.
Special find: 1x 454 2xTH400 all for $1,200 - price to scrap the rest of the motorhome
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/779045389166299/
Patrick (Forum Supporter) said:frenchyd said:yupididit said:Stampie (FS) said:In reply to frenchyd :
Why do you hate BBC so much?
Because, he thinks if he types all that then it'll deter people from Chevy v8 swapping his beloved v12 jaguars. Thus, considering them "lumps".
Frenchy only has about 10 things to say overall, so you don't really have to read his long post to know what he says. We still love him though
It's like transplanting a Ford engine into a Corvette. It will fit and run but why do it?
To piss off guys like you who consider it impure.
I don't think it's impure, I think it's dumb. Plenty of high performance Ford products out there if that's what you want. They've been properly engineered for and by Ford. There is a well established market for the end result.
If it breaks down on the road you can haul the Ford into a Ford garage and have it repaired. You wouldn't have to explain things to the mechanic and he can use parts from the dealership to repair the problem.
frenchyd said:Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:In reply to Stampie (FS) :
Because someone replaced a junk Jag V12 with one.
Toyman ; you strike me as a practical person. Have you ever taken a V12 apart or even owned one? If you have you would never call a Jaguar V12 Junk.
Maybe you're referring to an engine someone ignorant tried to fix and ruined. Or neglected and destroyed it. That happens. It's extremely wasteful considering what they cost originally. I think we'd both consider that a great waste. But has next to nothing to do with the car itself.
Volkswagen Rabbits had EFI. The same EFI early Jaguars started with. A lot of early VW Rabbits went to the junkyard early because mechanics took a while to learn about EFIRight up to the point where OBD2 came out and mechanics learned where to plug in. From the late 70's through the 80's good solid cars were prematurely junked.
Junk is a relative term. I'm pretty indifferent to Jag engines and junking an engine can happen a number of ways. Number one being piss poor maintenance. If I had a blown up Jag V12, rebuilding or fixing it wouldn't even be considered. It would get snatched and replaced with something better suited to my performance and wallet needs. Not only will the Chevy engine be more powerful, it will be cheaper. It's also almost a direct swap.
The way I approach cars and performance is directly tied to dollars. How much performance can my dollars buy. In the world of Jaguar, my dollars don't buy much performance. That is why the world doesn't Jag V12 swap all the things. I don't even consider them to be a performance engine. If they are good or not is irrelevant. They don't suite my needs and wallet. I don't consider Ferrari engines either because they don't suit my needs. I'd be willing to bet somewhere in this world is a Chevy swapped Ferrari.
In the world of swappable performance, dollars go farther using Chevrolet engines. Fact. The SBC, BBC and LSx engines are by far the cheapest HP you can buy. There are so many options it's insane. Need 300 hp that will turn 7k rpms all day? SBC or LSx can do that. Need 1000 hp to get you down the drag strip? No problem, LSx and BBC got you covered. Want a torque monster to cruise the Blvd? Yep they can do that too. Odds are someone has already built one and you can mix and match parts to build whatever you desire and can afford. Are they the most technologically advance? Not by a long shot. The most durable? Depends on how much money you throw at them. But they have been stuffed in every chassis imaginable because they work and they just keep working. Simple, reliable, and cheap performance.
My G35 has a really nice V6 in it. Just under 300 hp. Smooth, good torque. To get any more performance out of it costs $$$$. When it blows up, it will get a LS swap because a LS swap will net me double the HP and torque for the same dollars and in my performance world, nothing else matters.
And here you go. Blow up your 400 HP 3.6L Ferrari engine and want a 1000 hp to replace it? LSx swap all the things.
I rest my case.
P3PPY said:Special find: 1x 454 2xTH400 all for $1,200 - price to scrap the rest of the motorhome
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/779045389166299/
That brought back a flood of memories of pulling the RV 454 last summer. I think I need to call my therapist.
Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:frenchyd said:Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:In reply to Stampie (FS) :
Because someone replaced a junk Jag V12 with one.
Toyman ; you strike me as a practical person. Have you ever taken a V12 apart or even owned one? If you have you would never call a Jaguar V12 Junk.
Maybe you're referring to an engine someone ignorant tried to fix and ruined. Or neglected and destroyed it. That happens. It's extremely wasteful considering what they cost originally. I think we'd both consider that a great waste. But has next to nothing to do with the car itself.
Volkswagen Rabbits had EFI. The same EFI early Jaguars started with. A lot of early VW Rabbits went to the junkyard early because mechanics took a while to learn about EFIRight up to the point where OBD2 came out and mechanics learned where to plug in. From the late 70's through the 80's good solid cars were prematurely junked.
Junk is a relative term. I'm pretty indifferent to Jag engines and junking an engine can happen a number of ways. Number one being piss poor maintenance. If I had a blown up Jag V12, rebuilding or fixing it wouldn't even be considered. It would get snatched and replaced with something better suited to my performance and wallet needs. Not only will the Chevy engine be more powerful, it will be cheaper. It's also almost a direct swap.
The way I approach cars and performance is directly tied to dollars. How much performance can my dollars buy. In the world of Jaguar, my dollars don't buy much performance. That is why the world doesn't Jag V12 swap all the things. I don't even consider them to be a performance engine. If they are good or not is irrelevant. They don't suite my needs and wallet. I don't consider Ferrari engines either because they don't suit my needs. I'd be willing to bet somewhere in this world is a Chevy swapped Ferrari.
In the world of swappable performance, dollars go farther using Chevrolet engines. Fact. The SBC, BBC and LSx engines are by far the cheapest HP you can buy. There are so many options it's insane. Need 300 hp that will turn 7k rpms all day? SBC or LSx can do that. Need 1000 hp to get you down the drag strip? No problem, LSx and BBC got you covered. Want a torque monster to cruise the Blvd? Yep they can do that too. Odds are someone has already built one and you can mix and match parts to build whatever you desire and can afford. Are they the most technologically advance? Not by a long shot. The most durable? Depends on how much money you throw at them. But they have been stuffed in every chassis imaginable because they work and they just keep working. Simple, reliable, and cheap performance.
My G35 has a really nice V6 in it. Just under 300 hp. Smooth, good torque. To get any more performance out of it costs $$$$. When it blows up, it will get a LS swap because a LS swap will net me double the HP and torque for the same dollars and in my performance world, nothing else matters.
What is the going price for a Junkyard Chevy engine? Say with low miles ?
The most I've ever paid for a V12 engine is $300. When I ran out of storage space and had only sold off 15 in as many years I scrapped the rest.
None were bad. None even had a ridge, in fact a lot of them still showed hone marks from the factory.
None needed rebuilding. Figure out what the trouble was with the fuel injection and everyone could have been reused.
There are 3 good how to's on the EFI on U tube.
Power wise you have a 325 + horsepower engine with simple things like a fresh air intake (20+ horsepower). 1/2 inch bigger exhaust (15 horsepower.) eliminate the triple pass mufflers. ( 20 horsepower ) Stock it's 264 DIN net here in America. 299 in the rest of the world ( to get SAE net multiply DIN times 1. 0139 )
Those were all done so no engine sounds "offended" the occupants. that's after the factory put nearly 200 pounds of sound deadening material inside.
Let's say you find a low mileage Chevy Camaro Corvette, Not sure the truck or SUV intake will clear the Jaguar hood. You only have 25 inches of height to work with . That's 25 inches from the pan to the top of the engine. Buy one $500? You will also need a transmission behind it too since the Jaguar trans fits the Jaguar bolt pattern not the Chevy Buick or Cadillac pattern ( yes they are all different ) you'll also have to change the driveshaft.
Plus you'll need the Chevy ECM and figure out how to get the HVAC system to work. Then what about a Tach? Look kinda tacky with a different tach. Since all the rest of the gauges match.
The easy way is to buy a kit that has the mounts, hoses, fittings etc. that would be different.
$1,000 more? Less? I don't know.
Wouldn't it be a world easier just to replace it with an original engine?
In reply to frenchyd :
I hate to break it to you, but there are minivans with almost 325 hp. My pickup truck has 385. Can you get 1000 HP out of a Jag V12? How about 600? Can you do that for less than $10K.
Here are some for instances from the Googles. These are arbitrary part pulled from Google shopping searches and off the first page.
Cam kit Jag V12. $850. BBC $146. SBC $111 LSx $280
Heads Jag stock rebuilt, no performance parts to be found. $515 each. BBC $997 pair SBC $500 pair LSx $799 pair
Intake None to be found though there was a Weber carb setup for $4600. BBC $210 SBC $149 LSx $179.
Headers. Jag V12. $1995.00. BBC $152 SBC $129 LSx $203
I love rotary engines. That doesn't mean I want to spend $5000 to make 400 hp when I can do the same for $2000 and a Chevy engine. And now we know why so many RX7s have Chevy engines.
Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:In reply to frenchyd :
I hate to break it to you, but there are minivans with almost 325 hp. My pickup truck has 385. Can you get 1000 HP out of a Jag V12? How about 600? Can you do that for less than $10K.
Here are some for instances from the Googles. These are arbitrary part pulled from Google shopping searches and off the first page.
Cam kit Jag V12. $850. BBC $146. SBC $111 LSx $280
Heads Jag stock rebuilt, no performance parts to be found. $515. BBC $997 SBC $500 LSx $799
Intake None to be found though there was a Weber carb setup for $4600. BBC $210 SBC $149 LSx $179.
Headers. Jag V12. $1995.00. BBC $152 SBC $129 LSx $203
I love rotary engines. That doesn't mean I want to spend $5000 to make 400 hp when I can do the same for $2000 and a Chevy engine. And now we know why so many RX7s have Chevy engines.
You are aware the Jaguar is a heavy car aren't you? We're talking about 46xx pounds for an XJS. It's a "personal Luxury " car or just a luxury car in the case of a Sedan. On par with a Lincoln or Cadillac.
How many of those do you see with 1000 horsepower? Or even 600.
Most people accept them for what they are. Keep them nice and enjoy them as intended.
Me? I want to race one because every man should plant a tree, raise a child and race a V12.
As for your prices If I had to pay that much I darn sure couldn't race. Yet I raced Jaguars all over the country even in the Bahama's twice. Over many decades. honest wheel to wheel racing sometimes with famous names. Bobby Rahal and Stirling Moss.
even Al Unser Jr. AJFoyt and Paul Newman.*
I found a Flathead V12 Lincoln engine on Facebook today...... I just wanted to add that.
In reply to Thinkkker :
How much?
In reply to Thinkkker :
Broski... C'mon pics and a price, please!
In reply to Stampie (FS) :
Found it, $4k. Womp womp...
https://m.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1554347981392764/
In reply to Pattyo :
I'll let you get it.
He's pretty close to me but a bit out of my budget. Maybe if he still has it ar Christmas he'll be ready to put it on sale.
The biggest issue with Jag engines, especially the V12's, is that they weren't Chubbies or Frauds so mechanics in this country didn't know how to work on them. Because of that they got a lousy but on the whole undeserved reputation.
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:The biggest issue with Jag engines, especially the V12's, is that they weren't Chubbies or Frauds so mechanics in this country didn't know how to work on them. Because of that they got a lousy but on the whole undeserved reputation.
Kinda like when Mazda tried to bring this funky rotary thing into the states in a econo-box? Or repairing disc brakes cost more - cause only the forrin' things and race cars had them?
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:The biggest issue with Jag engines, especially the V12's, is that they weren't Chubbies or Frauds so mechanics in this country didn't know how to work on them. Because of that they got a lousy but on the whole undeserved reputation.
We are a nation of monkey see, monkey do mechanics. Myself included! Stepping out of our comfort zone is difficult ( but rewarding )
The V12 had 4 years of carburetors but once fuel injection happened it scared most. The mechanic opened the hood and failed to see a carb he could turn screws on and see what happened and he was going to bad mouth it.
The few who worked their way through it and could properly repair Jags etc are probably retired on a beach someplace eating peppermint bon-bons while a scantily clad young lady brings them thier drink.
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:The biggest issue with Jag engines, especially the V12's, is that they weren't Chubbies or Frauds so mechanics in this country didn't know how to work on them. Because of that they got a lousy but on the whole undeserved reputation.
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