Yes, the Corvair, Falcon and Valiant were the competitors in the small American car market in the early 60's. I have an old Popular Mechanics that compares the 3.
That would actually be a fun set of cars to own. Or even an interesting idea of a collection, competitors in the same market at the same time.
The Falcons are pretty much the nuclear surviving cockroach of a car. My best friends mom had the Comet equivalent and that thing would not die.
I always wanted a Corvair, but have scoping out Falcons lately.
Marjorie Suddard wrote: The Falcon is BEYOND gutless, but also dead simple and easy to upgrade with Mustang bits, while the Corvair is something unique and completely unto itself, both driving experience-wise and in terms of having a whole community devoted to it
Which is all but precisely why I'd go Corvair myself.
Aren't early Corvairs swing axles, and the 65 on true independent?
If this is true, I would go with the late mode. 65 to 69.
I owned a swing axle and an IRS Corvair and didn't really notice a measurable difference between them during my regular (highway and side roads/city and suburbs) commute to college, both performed beautifully. Quick, smart, fairly precise, and a load of fun.
The VW went through a similar IRS up-grade. I've also owned swing axle and IRS VWs and, again, when driving them normally, the differences can't really be felt.
It's only at the extremes that the IRS excels, otherwise either style is just as good as the other.
You also really have to factor in that the Corvair was made by GM. They wouldn't place dangerous cars in their dealerships and foist them off on the public. In spite of the later slurs against it, the car was manufactured by a major manufacturer to be in direct competition with the rest of the world, used a world-proven rear suspension system, and was mostly lower, wider, and better constructed than any of the rest. It wasn't the time bomb that it was painted to be.
Honestly, I've owned everything from a '62 Chevy 409 SS to a '55 Porsche 356 Continental Coupe, and '63 Vette to my current late model Mustang and am ALWAYS on the lookout for a 1962 four door standard shift Corvair sedan as my dream car. Having driven at least a version of almost everything, the Corvair stands out among all of them.
Yes, the early Corvair swing axles are not the big of a deal. The 64, with the transverse leaf spring (camber compensator), it's essentially a complete non-issue. Realistically, the early suspension is a bit tighter then the late since the rear wheels on the late are located by the half shafts to the transaxle, both of which will have a bit of play.
Bias ply tirse also play a huge part of the "issue" with the early Corvair.
To be realistic, the car is pretty dangerous, but in perspective to the time, it was pretty normal. I have always thought though, combining a car with terminal oversteer with REALLY slow steering was kind of a bad idea. They did it because people where used to very light power steering. So it was a bit of marketing over safety there.
Look under the trunk mat of a 65 Mustang and tell me what you see. Safety was NOT job one back in the day! 
(hard to say if they knew any better in some cases though)
"dunno, I'd do the Falcon with a bunch of shelby style performance parts, kinda' a GT350 in a Falcon body.
maseratiguy wrote: "dunno, I'd do the Falcon with a bunch of shelby style performance parts, kinda' a GT350 in a Falcon body.
Originally owned by Pete Brock, the Falcon served as an all purpose tow and delivery vehicle for Shelby American. Its powerplant is a full-race Cobra 289.
The Falcon can also be seen in the movie "The Killers" (1964) starring Ronald Regan.
The Fart Monkeys did one all up for Pikes Peak.
It seemed to take a TON of work to get right, but it was right in end. Considering the animosity towards the Mustang shown by the bearded mechanic, it was sort of neat that he was so willing to take on a Falcon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq4dTeJpyBY
And Leno seems to be a fan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYhTQx-NxAU
Not just for Pike's Peak: Kaufman's Falcon at the Big Bend Open Road Race:
This was in 2014. Note the lack of hood vents, added after his initial runs up Pike's Peak.
He brought it to BBORR in 2015, but something broke before the race.
The Falcon would surely be the safe choice. My pop bought a '63 wagon new when I was a wee lad. 170 Special inline 6 and three-on-the-tree. It lasted a good while--long enough for me to have driven it a couple times as a teenager. Even with that nostalgia quotient, I find the Corvair to be much the more interesting car.
I daily drive a 63 falcon. They are pretty miserable in stock form. Terrible suspension geometry, awful brakes and underpowered with gearing that is not condusive to modern freeway speeds.
The good points about the car are the easy upgrade paths. Want disc brakes? There are lots of options. Want more power than the 90hp six? Most of the 289/302 V8's will fit. Want to fix that appalling bumper steer? You can do that too. Need better gearing? Lots of rear end ratios and overdrive transmission options can be made to fit.
I am working on a 63 Corvair spyder with the 150hp turbo motor. I fell hard in love with it. What a cool car. I love the style of this thing. IMO The corvair is the only interesting car GM made.
My concerns are that since it is the only car they made that isn't the standard front engine rwd formula that easy and inexpensive upgrades aren't available. Bolt on discs? Who knows. Gearing? Well of the two transaxle options, none have an overdrive and the integrated ring and pinion isn't a simple change IF longer ratios are even out there. More power? Well there are hop ups for the motor so that isn't a big deal, plus most corvairs had more power than the little six Fords.
All this said I would swap my upgraded falcon for a 'vair in a heartbeat. Those cars just appeal to me so much. The flat six sounds fantastic.
Since the transaxle is based around the nuke-proof Powerglide, wonder if any of the drag racing modifications might apply?
Folks are STILL using Powerglide based trans in drag racing with very good results. Maybe a different converter or pump, maybe try some of the valve modifications or whatever. Of course, there's still the 1 to 1 final gearing but might be worth looking into for some street performance if you haven't already committed to a standard.
Not really sure, but maybe . . .
TeamEvil wrote: ... You also really have to factor in that the Corvair was made by GM. They DID place dangerous cars in their dealerships and foist them off on the public. ...
Here, FTFY
I've owned and raced swing axle cars since 1968 (Spitfire), so no axe to grind there.
There was clear evidence during development testing that swing axle Corvairs had serious safety issues,
which could have been by addressed by fitting camber compensators,
but GM Bean Counters 'did the formula' (see Fight Club), and released them into the hands of an unsuspecting public.
Today, the release of such a product would be considered unthinkable High Folly.
Jumper K. Balls wrote: ... What a cool car. I love the style of this thing. IMO The corvair is the only interesting car GM made. ...
I'd at least include it's sister car, F85 Olds, aluminum V-8, turbocharged, speedometer cable driveshaft back to the same swing axle IRS.
My primary concern is the gearing. With the Falcon I found that turning 3750RPM to keep up with traffic on a motor that starts floating the valves at 4000RPM is far less than ideal. I realize the Corvair motor revs a bit higher than the Ford Six though.
I am also of the opinion that shift kitted, high stall auto transmissions are garbage on the street. At least with the Chrysler auto in the Jensen Interceptor I just had to de-kit and put in a stock torque converter because the person who built the car did a drag race style build on it. Things that work great at WOT for short periods of time aren't necessarily the best for road use.
Switching my car from 2.98 gears with a 1:1 final drive to 3:27's with an OD 5th must have cut 4 seconds off the 0-60 time and made it feel more comfortable and civilized all around. I gained around 7mpg in town as well. It was the kind of night and day modification that made me reconsider everything.
erohslc wrote:Jumper K. Balls wrote: ... What a cool car. I love the style of this thing. IMO The corvair is the only interesting car GM made. ...I'd at least include it's sister car, F85 Olds, aluminum V-8, turbocharged, speedometer cable driveshaft back to the same swing axle IRS.
Well then I'd add the Tempest LeMans Super Duty to that list too... 
Anyone ever actually see a Corvair flip over on it's back?
Not in a vid or in a forced situation, but just driving around town or on the highway?
Just wondering as I think that I would have noticed this phenomena at some point.
I can confirm, with a much smaller sampling on my part, what someone who owned a Corvair junk yard once said: I have never seen a Corvair with rollover damage. I have however, seen a LOT of them with rear end damage (as in, spun into something). The true "danger" of the Corvair, is the spin, not the rollover.
Rollover is really not an issue at all realistically with a Corvair. They have a ridiculously low center of mass for the drive train (just about centerline to the axles). The reason why there was a concern with that at all was obviously the jacking effect, but also tire pressure and tire type. What did cause then to roll was the rim catching something (e.g. curb), not simply going over. Neeless to say, that is an issue with almost any car. They had to work pretty hard to get the one to roll in the video you may have seen.
Regarding gear ratios: The common ratios in Corvairs where 3.55 and 3.27. Automatics mostly had 3.27's. There were VERY few original 3.08 R&P's made (a bit of a cheat for a mileage competition), but they have been re-manufactured a few times.
A stock Corvair with a 3.27 is not that big of a deal at modern freeway speeds. I think a 3 or 4 speed will turn about 3400 at 80 mph. Not ideal (the fan gets a bit loud), but well below the 6500 redline.
Transmission / differential options are a bit low. Other then swapping out a Porsche Transaxle (which requires a substantial suspension reworking) the only option ever made available was a converted T5 that replaced the stock transmission. These are VERY rare and rather expensive (thankfully I have one). I run a T5 with a .75 5th gear (the tall version) AND a 3.08 R/P. I almost certainly have the tallest geared Corvair ever driven on the street. With a higher compression 2.9L motor though, it drives great, and most importantly, 60 mph is around 2600 rpm, and VERY quiet.
"The true "danger" of the Corvair, is the spin, not the rollover."
True for any tail heavy car of that era, Fiat, NSU, VW, Renault, Porsche, et al, and none of them were nearly as low or flat as the Corvair.
aircooled wrote: the only option ever made available was a converted T5 that replaced the stock transmission. These are VERY rare and rather expensive (thankfully I have one). I run a T5 with a .75 5th gear (the tall version) AND a 3.08 R/P. I almost certainly have the tallest geared Corvair ever driven on the street. With a higher compression 2.9L motor though, it drives great, and most importantly, 60 mph is around 2600 rpm, and VERY quiet.
I would love to see pictures of this if you have any. I can't seem to wrap my head around how a T5 can be converted to a transaxle. Off to the googles.
petegossett wrote:erohslc wrote:Well then I'd add the Tempest LeMans Super Duty to that list too...Jumper K. Balls wrote: ... What a cool car. I love the style of this thing. IMO The corvair is the only interesting car GM made. ...I'd at least include it's sister car, F85 Olds, aluminum V-8, turbocharged, speedometer cable driveshaft back to the same swing axle IRS.
Yup!!!
Jumper K. Balls wrote: I would love to see pictures of this if you have any. I can't seem to wrap my head around how a T5 can be converted to a transaxle. Off to the googles.
Here is a pic of the converted transmission. You can see the modified front / rear housing. Hollow shaft runs into Diff. Input shaft runs from clutch, through diff, into this hollow shaft to the far end of the transmission where it engages the transmission(!).
Another pic of modified the front (old rear) housing.
A pic of some of the obvious issues. Trans is longer then stock so it sticks through the firewall. The shifter also exits the top of the trans. Some installations run the shifter over the the floor. I run a more stockish, but more troublesome under floor setup.
The trans as delivered had a number of conversion design flaws (including a serious one with the modified main shaft). The have all been (only recently) addressed (a new custom made main shaft is essentially a requirement).
In reply to Jumper K. Balls:
IIRC the Corvair box runs the input and output concentric, NOT like a VW/Porsche box. So to make a T5 work on one you'd need to totally rework the 4th gear/direct/input bearing retainer area to put the power out the front, mod the case to bolt to the diff housing, and come up with a way to shift it.
EDIT: Aircooled beat me to it.
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