Is it just me or have classic 911 prices been going up substantially while I wasn't looking?

I finally sold my 911 in the UK and thought we could go shopping for one over here.

Only that while I wasn't looking, even the prices for impact bumper cars seems to have gone up substantially. Now, I can't figure out if it's simply seasonal (ie, not many cars on the market and the only ones hanging around are the overpriced ones) or if prices really have gone up substantially in the past 12 and actually possibly in the past 6 months.

There's a bunch of cars that look to me like they would have gone for about $20k last autumn that are now being advertised as $25k+ cars (and I'm not even going to mention the hot rodded Targa that has just been advertised for sale around here for around $25k that sound like a $15k car to me).

So, is it bite-the-bullet time if I want another torsion bar 911 or am I seeing delusional asking prices?

In reply to BoxheadTim:

911 prices are going nuts all of a sudden.Even the big bumper models are commanding a premium. I was talking to a friend about this a few weeks ago. He owns two 911's - a 94 RSA and a 65. He bought the 65 a couple of years ago for 40 K out of California as a one owner car and recently turned down an offer of 85 K for it.

Unfortunately it seems a lot of speculators are suddenly getting into 911's and have started a feeding frenzy over the past while. I like 911's but don't feel they are worth the prices they are selling for lately, especially when comparing with some other cars offering a lot more bang for the buck. As a result I've scratched the 911 off my wants list.

And then there are the cars that look too cheap:

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/porsche/carrera/1532113.html?refer=blog

I'm aware of that car and I'm tempted to make a quick trip down to SF to look at it. There are a couple of cheaper ones around that have high mileage or a blemish on the history or three, this is one of the.

My surprise is more that when I came over here, 911 prices where roughly on par with the UK prices. A little higher, but with less rust. Now, after selling my 65k-from-new C3.2 for UK market price, the same money buys me a high miler SC .

Oh well, I probably need a daily driver with AWD more than a 911 anyway.

These are on my short list. I've been watching them for about a year now pretty closely, and i think they've done about a $5k jump in that time in my very informal price chartings. If i wait too much longer, they will be out of my fun car budget!

I think people are just now realizing the end of the world is not near and are willing to spend some money. 911s of all vintage are very popular again so prices are starting to go up. Plus its getting to be driving weather in parts of the US.

I find it interesting that even cars with motorswaps seem to be keeping even or surpassing stock cars. For example a mid year with a 3.0 or 3.2 is usally selling higher and faster than a stock 2.7 mid year.

What I'm getting sick of seeing is waaaaay to many RS clones. Don't get me wrong I love the look, but to me the lines of an unmolested early car are just way better looking than all the RS clones.

This was not a sudden thing guys, the early, long hood, 911 market has been moving pretty rapidly for the last 3 years. I sold a 1967 911S that I had restored for 85k 18 months ago. It was a nice restoration but not perfect. The 78-89 cars have also been increasing in price along with the rest of the market but at a slower pace. These cars have quite honestly, with the exception of the 2.7 RS, have been undervalued for quite a long time.

You can still shop hard and find a nice 78-89 car for under 20k. Advice? Do not pay extra for a 89 as they were never as nicely finished as the earlier cars were. I base this on ownership experience with 2 89 cars and inspections on more than 50 other 89 cars for friends, so lets not argue that point. basically get one asap. They are great cars. I have had 23 911 cars and love the 79-88 cars the best, with a soft spot for the SC, especially the 83 Cabrio.

One reason is that people finally woke up and wondered why the Chevrolet Corvette was outpacing 911s of the same era in value. The market is where it should be considering the desirability and rarity of the cars.

Also, Tim, I would not be that afraid of higher mileage. If the car has been serviced and if needed rebuilt correctly, mileage should not be an issue. My friend Rob has a 79 SC with something like 175k miles on it and it still drives and feels new, or as new as any 911 feels with a true vintage control set.

Look for a piece in the next Classic Motorsports on the 911 phenomenon.

Another comment. I've been sort of insisting on a coupe, as I've always liked them better, but Targas are cheaper and seemingly easier to find in decent condition. Does this seem like a fair statement? I did find one Targa I liked. What's the concensus on these?

Targas are cheaper because most people want the coupe.

From my own experience, there are a couple of advantages to the Targa (additional rear headroom, for example) at the expense of the classic coupe lines. They're also noisier inside with the roof on (especially if it's not a 100% perfect fit and most aren't) and fixing/replacing the roof costs an arm and a leg. The OEM quality seals I put on the roof of the one I had in the UK cost multiples of a good quality Miata roof and didn't even come in a Porsche box. At least that and recovering the roof stopped it from leaking in heavy rain, which is kinda useful in the UK.

A good Targa is a nice car and certainly enjoyable to drive, no two ways about it. It is a proper 911, feels like one, handles like one and in most cases you won't notice that the coupe shell is stiffer unless you take it on the track.

Keep in mind that when Porsche turned the 911 into a full convertible, they used the same shell as the Targa without IIRC any further reinforcements.

Racerdave600- Pretty much everything Tim said is correct. Porsche did make a factory hardtop for the targas but they are rare and $$$$ when you can find them.

I bought my targa not knowing anything about the differences between coupes, targas and cabs. There are some days during the winter when I wish I had a coupe because I think I might drive the 911 more. But to be honest, there is nothing better than coming out the car after a long day of work, popping the top off, and cruising home listening to the motor sing. Well to be honest, hugging my wife and kid after a day of work cannot be compared to anything, but in the car world there is nothing better.

Unless you are going to seriously track the car a targa may work for you. I make to suggestions to go and drive as many different ones as you can. And if you can afford it to look at the 3.2 model years. Yes they are a bit heavier, but they have electronic fuel and ignition management. Which means you won't have to deal with the awful CIS system on the mid year and SC models. When the CIS system is working its fine, but when its not, what a PITA. Unless you are the type that likes to chase down vacuum leaks...

Or just fit throttle bodies to an SC, especially if you live in a non-smog place .

Just curious what makes the CIS system so bad in Porsche?

That being said I bought a nice fiberglass aftermarket top for my targa 75 S for 400 bucks and it was great. I liked it much better than the leather one that came with the car.

Fun fact, I sold both my tops and used the money to buy some amazing 3 piece wheels for the car. So I had no top but baller wheels. LOL at least it was a sunny day driver in a garage.

One reason I'm buying a 964 is because most of the earlier coupes have become priced such that I wouldn't feel comfortable putting 10k miles a year on one. It's a bit of a bummer really. I always hoped I'd be able to pick up a '75, the year I was born. Looking at prices, I doubt that's going to happen.

I had a pair of 356's. Sold my last one in 1986 for $6500 which was a going price for a decent driver back then and then turned around and paid the same for a tired Sunbeam Tiger. The 356's sure weren't great cars, the driving experience isn't a lot different from a slightly tricked out Ghia or VW bug, and the 356's with the 60 DIN "normal" engine were bog slow. Now look at the 356 prices. Insanity IMHO.

I kind of think the same thing is happening with 911's. Consider that a 928 or 944 turbo or 968 were technically better than most of the 911's of that era but these cars can be had for a psalm. You have to shake your head and wonder why there is so much premium on having an air cooled engine in the rear.

I know that feeling - I was born in '68 and still harbour a vague hope that I might be able to pick up a 911 or 912 built that year, but I suddenly get very lucky financially I think that's not going to happen.

I am considering a 964 - a C4 would be ideal for out here as an almost DD - but it seems hard to find one that's not Guards Red with chrome rims. I'm keeping my eyes peeled, though.

BoxheadTim wrote: I know that feeling - I was born in '68 and still harbour a vague hope that I might be able to pick up a 911 or 912 built that year, but I suddenly get very lucky financially I think that's not going to happen.

912s still aren't that bad. 10K will fetch a decent driver.

The ones I see out here that look like they're worth having are getting up there ($15k-$20k). Which kinda sorta makes sense as a lot of people use them as a basis for a hot rod. The 912 engine is pretty much as expensive to rebuild as the 911 one so slotting in a six - especially from a later car - makes a lot of sense.

Hey Tim, how about this one:

http://carplanet.com/porsche/911t/1972-porsche-911t-coupe-lightyellow.htm

That looks very tempting, but I have to see if I can get the colour past the wife. She doesn't like yellow or blue cars, although she might be amenable to pale yellow.

I think it is the 911 S model that is going through the roof. Slightly more rare but makes no sense. I don't think the T, E, or CIS is going up all that much. They are good, fun, classic cars, but the S is only marginally better than the T, so it's hard to determine the reason for increase in price. Collectors are paying $100-$150,000 USD. The thing is, these were popular cars, and not very rare as the Ferrari's were/are. So, I really don't understand the huge price increases or when the big jump began. I've owned several 1960's 911's, all over 15-20 years ago, and you good find drivable cars for 10k.

The other day I talked to a friend who just bought a 3.2L Carrera--pretty sure it's an '86. Anyway, he said the good cars he saw were in the mid-$20s, low-$30s. Still, he loooooves it.

While normally I'd be inclined to think that the 911 prices won't hold, but given his knowledge on these cars and the market I'd have to agree with Andy Reid. Also the January issue does indeed have some good info in it.

Now while subject of the January issue Andy may have great taste in cars but music may be a different story...........Depeche Mode???..............really??? The Cure are fine but once you start listening to Depeche Mode it's not long after you're riding around in a Chevette listening to the Bangels.............my recommendation would be large doses of The Clash, Iggy Pop & The Cramps.................this should get rid of that nasty syntho-disco residue......if you find this treatment to harsh start off with Elvis (Costello..not that guy who butched up Big Mama Thornton tunes) and work your way though the Dead Milkmen and the Ramones.

OK back to the real topic..............sadly I too am left thinking I'm going to have to pull 911s off my list. I had hoped to find a 70's bare bones model to convert for vintage racing.....stock motor slightly upgraded suspension brakes and have a fun rugged car. Guess it is going to be Datsuns for quite some time.

     Tom

Check out this 65 beater for a mere 116 K. I just don't get it.

http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/21392/lot/149/

Not to mention the 1977 911S that just sold for 88 Grand at the same sale. Who pays that much for an impact bumper car?