Road and Track did a track comparison between Jimmy Clark's Lotus 49 and a new Corvette ZR1 at the Circuit of the Americas. The videos are pretty cool.
Lotus 49: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Opzzn9sl1kU
ZR1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXVQkh_TKTo
On the other hand I'm not impressed with the design makeover of R&T magazine...it looks more like People magazine now. The Roundel BMW club magazine underwent a similar redesign a few months ago.
Pretty cool. Here's the rest of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WBigoSL61I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYMFrFBfm7U
The Corvette's time was 2:20, the Lotus was 2:17.
My and a buddy played a game where we assumed a flux capacitor install in various new cars and then what you would have to set the date to to win various races, in bone stock modern cars.
I think we decided that the ZR1 could probably win Lemans over the GT40's, but not over the Porsches that put them out to pasture.
The thing that amazes me that today the Cobra Daytona coupes wouldn't even qualify.
DILYSI Dave wrote: My and a buddy played a game where we assumed a flux capacitor install in various new cars and then what you would have to set the date to to win various races, in bone stock modern cars. I think we decided that the ZR1 could probably win Lemans over the GT40's, but not over the Porsches that put them out to pasture.
Great game. The first time I drove the Nordscheife, I put down a lap time that would have done a 1930's Bentley proud.
A few things from the video:
that Lotus is one perky little thing, isn't it? That's a healthy power/weight. And it makes a delicious noise.
The ZR1 comes across as being all engine, no chassis. Tiptoe around the corners, monster the straights. Street tires and huge power, I get it. But I know which one looks like more fun.
COTA needs some real curbs. It looks like someone just painted the course in the parking lot of the Mall of America.
I wonder how much faster the Lotus might have been if the young Mr. Rossi had been given instructions on how to properly use the gearbox.
Interesting how much the ZR1 motor "leans" in the corners.
Once F1 became a game of aerodynamics over engines and suspension set-up, the cars entered a realm which it's unlikely a street car will ever match. There's no real value for a manufacturer to build serious downforce into a street car -- so even 5,000 hp won't get that Vette around COTA faster an a modern F1 car.
Very much enjoyed that article - I was there at the Glen when Jimmy won in that car, with the rear suspension askew for the last couple of laps. I've always loved the 49. I do wonder about the. lateral G figures in the article, though - I assume they are peak transitional Gs, which are higher than steady-state Gs, but 1.61 in a Corvette? Almost that high in a non-aero F1 car with vintage racing tires? Back in the day, this was before the Chaparral 2J Sucker car set the world on its ear with 1.5 G steady-state
oldsaw wrote: I wonder how much faster the Lotus might have been if the young Mr. Rossi had been given instructions on how to properly use the gearbox.
I was thinking the same 
I think they could have picked an older driver familiar with both ends of the techno spectrum to wring out the best.
It could also be a bit of a tricky 'box to deal with. Although, being internet commenters, we are all much better drivers than a mere F1 test driver.
In reply to Keith Tanner:
The Lotus 49 would likely have had a Hewland gearbox although it's been mentioned that the earliest version used a ZF. ZF's have always had a reputation for being particularly "difficult".
Regardless, Rossi is only 22 and the cars he started with had easier-to-use boxes than what he had in the Lotus.
Stuart wrote that he didn't like the new format of R&T. I agree. Too radical. Like Car and Driver. Both owned by Hurst Publications now. That should be a red flag right there. They even moved R&T from SoCal to Ann Arbor. Death of another tradition. I'm sure it's another cost cutting move. Anyway I find the new format too busy. It's worse with the revamped Car and Driver. I get both through cheap subscriptions. (Gotta keep the readership up to attract the advertisers). I would never pay full price for either. On the other hand I picked up a cheap subscription to Hot Rod last year and love it. David Freiburger the editor has created a masterpiece. You don't have to be a hot rod, street rod or drag racing aficionado to appreciate the new Hot Rod. There's a lot of excellent how-to articles and they celebrate good craftsmanship and ingenuity that applies to any genre. And they even discuss suspensions and autocrossing now.
DILYSI Dave wrote: My and a buddy played a game where we assumed a flux capacitor install in various new cars and then what you would have to set the date to to win various races, in bone stock modern cars. I think we decided that the ZR1 could probably win Lemans over the GT40's, but not over the Porsches that put them out to pasture.
Yeah played that one before too, but we always put in the caveat of the same modern tires.
I think the GT-40 would have killed the ZR-1. But the ZR-1 driver would have been alot more rested. Race car with 200+ top speed set up to do racing things with racing stresses vs a street car.
That Lotus 49 in that vid makes such wonderful noises. I wouldn't mind if they brought that engine spec back for a series, just for the music.
the ZR-1 seems like a motor with some wheels attached. It is a monster down the straights. I would have liked to seen the Z06 version around as well.
Remember that the 2012 ZR1 beat the 2013 SRT Viper and a 2012(?) Porsche in a similar handling test.
Yeah, I think the ZR1 did not look like it was having problems, the speeds were just really high. Try it in any ultra high performance street car and it's going to look as bad or worse. Probably worse.
DoctorBlade wrote: Remember that the 2012 ZR1 beat the 2013 SRT Viper and a 2012(?) Porsche in a similar handling test.
I remember the ZR-1 losing to the Shelby GT-500 in handling according to Randy Pobst in a Motortrend article he was the driver for. If I am remembering correctly he said the Vette was scary at the limits around the track.
They mentioned in the last segment that the ZR1 and the lotus were identical through the esses and have almost identical corner speeds.
How is the ZR1 just a motor with wheels again? Looks like it held it's own quite well to me. I would be more interested to see what the driver was doing in the ZR1. He looked like he was going to be worn out in the Lotus after a few laps. That car looked like a complete handful to manhandle. You can see how far things have progressed!
It's so weird watching video without seat-of-the-pants in something like the Lotus. That seemed like an awful lot of big corrections.
Beautiful car making a beautiful noise. I wonder what it actually feels like...
Bobzilla wrote: How is the ZR1 just a motor with wheels again? Looks like it held it's own quite well to me. I would be more interested to see what the driver was doing in the ZR1. He looked like he was going to be worn out in the Lotus after a few laps. That car looked like a complete handful to manhandle. You can see how far things have progressed!
exiting every corner the whole thing just shook. Violently. I thought it was cool. Calm down Vette fan boi. It wasn't an insult.
The ZR1 might be fast in the corners, but it's faster on the straights. The car isn't balanced at all. That's where the "all motor, no chassis" comments come from.
As for the amount of work needed to drive the Lotus, I've driven (slower) cars that require a similar amount of correction. It's so much fun :D
Flight Service wrote:Bobzilla wrote: How is the ZR1 just a motor with wheels again? Looks like it held it's own quite well to me. I would be more interested to see what the driver was doing in the ZR1. He looked like he was going to be worn out in the Lotus after a few laps. That car looked like a complete handful to manhandle. You can see how far things have progressed!exiting every corner the whole thing just shook. Violently. I thought it was cool. Calm down Vette fan boi. It wasn't an insult.
Not your quote, per se, I just see constantly how the vette can't handle yadda yadda yadda.... yet everytime I turn around I see how it out handles all these "purist" cars.
Just frustrating. Some people cannot admit when GM is succesful, ever.
Bobzilla wrote:Flight Service wrote:Not your quote, per se, I just see constantly how the vette can't handle yadda yadda yadda.... yet everytime I turn around I see how it out handles all these "purist" cars. Just frustrating. Some people cannot admit when GM is succesful, ever.Bobzilla wrote: How is the ZR1 just a motor with wheels again? Looks like it held it's own quite well to me. I would be more interested to see what the driver was doing in the ZR1. He looked like he was going to be worn out in the Lotus after a few laps. That car looked like a complete handful to manhandle. You can see how far things have progressed!exiting every corner the whole thing just shook. Violently. I thought it was cool. Calm down Vette fan boi. It wasn't an insult.
Oh I'm not admitting that, I am one of the few on here that think it is ugly as a whole with only a few attractive parts.
But since the C5, the Vette will stop, go and turn, no denying those facts.
everybody has an opinion,and more!
article also said Corvette was faster in the wet than the Lotus.
and the Lotus with slicks, was almost ripped apart. those cars were fragile and dangerous, precisly why they were banned. more men were killed,violently, in 1967 than any year, of Grand-Prix,F1 racing.
as said, its time has come and gone, and never again a serious competitor.
Say what? The 1967 49 was a pre-slick car (slicks weren't around for a couple of more years and the photos in the article clearly all show treaded tires), and it was never banned from racing - neither were any of the other F1 cars of the day. The 49 was used until the 72 was introduced, and won several more races in the hands of Graham Hill (along with the 1968 championship) and Jochen Rindt. No disagreement on the danger of racing in those days, but the Lotus was no more dangerous than any other F1 car of the day. The FIA didn't do much in the way of serious safety requirements until the late 70s - early 80s. Up until then they were pretty much fuel tanks with wheels and virtually no rollover protection.
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