Lotus Europa - What's the deal with these?

I find myself liking them more and more as time passes. At the same time I vaguely remember all the threads commenting how one of these was passed around the forum and possibly never finished.

I also remember someone wanted to almost give one away (Pete maybe?) in this forum with no success.

Whats so bad about them? What makes them complicated?

Is it the electrical system? The fiberglass? Mechanicals? Or a combination of all of those?

On the mechanical side? Can you purchase most wear items? Or do you need to have them fabricated?

This is a joke, but not very much of one. I don't think even Lotus has completed a running, driving, reliable Europa.

There is a free shell that gets passed around GRM world from time to time. These guys build 10 second drag cars which can autocross faster than modified Miata's and yet nobody has finished it.

I don't know why.

Google: "Free Range Europa" (exactly like that in quotes)

Should answer your questions.

You can purchase almost every part for the Europa, though there are the odd "Lotus only" bits that aren't available new. But, there seems to be enough people wrecking them, so the hard to get bits do pop up from time to time. Google "Banks Europa", they stock a ton of Europa bits.

As for what goes wrong with them, the chassis rusts, the fiberglass is typically covered in spider cracks, the Lotus powered ones seem to scare people away with rebuild costs, the Renault powered ones seem to scare people away with their French-ness. Suspension wise, there really isn't any issues with the front, at the rear the gearbox mount can deteriorate which screws up the handling (the upper link in the rear suspension is the halfshaft, so suspension loads go through the gearbox etc).

I really don't know why none have been finished on this board, they are fairly simple to work on. Fingers crossed I'll have mine on the road sometime next year.

Rod

I am the current owner of the GRM free pass-around Europa.

Nope. No more progress.

The deal comes down to a couple of odd factors.

The BEST thing about a Europa is the suspension design. It's an awesome handler.

The problem with the suspension is that the transmission is part of it. That's not a misprint. The rear suspension of a Europa uses the transmission case as a connecting point. Of course, these transmissions were questionable, and can't take huge power. There is also very little they will mate to. The minute you do a motor or transmission swap, you've lost the rear suspension, and don't even have a roller. Yes, you can fabricate something new. But it's no longer the Lotus suspension.

Then comes the structure. The chassis is the strength, the body is nothing. I really mean nothing- it's so thin I can lift the entire body myself if I get in the right position to balance it properly. It has a fiberglass pan, so you can't add a rollbar/ cage without adding structure. They were wonderfully light, but nightmarishly frightening from a safety perspective. If you correct the safety, you may double the weight of the car, and loose it's nimbleness.

Next comes the motor position. The chassis is a spine down the middle, that Vees behind the driver's seat to pick up the rear wheels. The engine tucks into the V. There are very few engines that will fit in that vee and still give you enough space for a drivetrain to drive the rear wheels. Yes, you can fabricate, but again you will loose the Europa-ness.

Lots of other oddities- for example, the firewall is cardboard (again, no exaggeration). Good luck getting it through tech with no fire separation from the engine to the passenger compartment. Yep. you can fabricate. Yep, it will add weight again.

The windshield is made of unobtanium, and is worth more than the car. So, many in mediocre cars are sacrificed for the few remaining good Europa restorations, which makes the remainders less valuable.

The list goes on and on. The car was a really neat concept in it's original form, but is challenging to make serviceable in an afterlife.

And if you are just going to drop a body on a Locost, there are better bodies.

I started down the Europa Love Wagon, but in following many restoration threads, it seemed that they needed ~everything~. And by everything, I mean e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g.

I ended up buying a 1:18 die cast JPS Europa to appease my need for ownership. It helps.

SVreX wrote: I am the current owner of the GRM free pass-around Europa. Nope. No more progress.

When it's time, put me on the list. I've never seen a basket case I couldn't make better.

Of course, these transmissions were questionable, and can't take huge power. There is also very little they will mate to. The minute you do a motor or transmission swap, you've lost the rear suspension, and don't even have a roller. Yes, you can fabricate something new. But it's no longer the Lotus suspension.

There are a few ways to improve the powertrain, the stock gearbox can be swapped out for an NG3 which gives 5 speeds and is stronger than the stock gearboxes. Other than modifying the gearbox mounting it's an almost straight swap. And, if you can get your hands on a Twin Cam bellhousing, you can bolt up a Zetec to the Renault gearboxes. But you do have to modify the engine mounts and do some plumbing.

Or, you can get a decent amount of power out of the Renault engines. The crossflow motors suitably worked over can give upwards of 150 hp.

I see them all the time at British car shows. A gracious owner at Lime Rock last year let me sit in his to see if I fit (I do!).

To me, it seems there are two ways to approach a Europa. Both avenues would likely cost about the same:

1. Buy one that's stock and done. Meaning it's not a project (understanding any old Lotus is a "project" regardless of condition). It runs and drives and you maintain and repair it as needed to keep it stock.

2. Rebuild/rework it and accept losing some of the "Europa-ness" SVreX refers to in the name of performance, reliability and comfort. Opinions on how to do this differ greatly depending on one's experiences and preferences. I lean towards a VAG B5 1.8t FWD drivetrain running the engine on Megasquirt. This would provide plenty of power and allow for possible creature-comforts such as A/C.

In reply to RoddyMac17:

Yes, I understand.

"Decent" power to me would be upwards of 200hp. Actually, I was shooting for 300hp.

150hp of Frenchy "goodness" stuffed into an oddball bit of British quirkiness to conquer the extremes of a 10:1 weight to power ratio that's still a tissue paper death trap on wheels just doesn't quite give me the same tingly feeling.

I am currently driving a 8:1 ratio in a modern chassis with crumple zones and readily available after-market support. I could probably get it to a 6:1 with effort, money, and a full cage.

Regardless of how excited she makes you feel initially, it's hard to stay committed to a girl as odd as a Europa.

In reply to SVreX:

I don't know... that kinda describes driving a Mini or to some level my Spitfire. Because it weighs so little, it doesn't seem like the "normal" weight-to-power ratios apply. No, you won't win any drag races, but at the same time, it's a bit scary to drive with the modest power it has.

So basically what I gather from SVreX's post is that if you want to upgrade it, they are a nighmare.

I would want to keep it as stock as possible, with possibly a new wiring harness. Of course, will probably not buy anything ... just want to inform myself as I keep seeing them for sale and I am very weak.

Regarding the safety aspect, I was not expecting it to be at all. Like SV said, its a fiberglass tub.

I have driven both a new Elise, and Evora and they are still flimsy and dont feel safe at all.

I guess the best would be to start with a running, or at least rolling one that had all the glass intact.

What is the Renault engine in them? What other cars used it?

Upgrading them isn't that difficult providing you have the skills to do so. Simple bolt on upgrades are available but are limited. Finding one with a good windscreen is paramount, as even though they are available, they are pricey and, being glass, are difficult to ship.

They are "dangerous" compared to todays modern luxo-barges, but no more dangerous than any other Lotus, except maybe a Cortina.

As for the Renault engines, the stock motor came from the Renault 16, but you can fit R17 and I believe Fuego motors.

I would hold out for a running driving one, as restoring one will cost more than buying a good one. That is unless you're like me and enjoy spending countless hours putting them together.

So with the trans being part of the suspension, are they built differentthan others? I mean other than bbeing a transaxle like the Chrysler 300m trans.

My head is chewing on a narrow v6 swap. Like a 300m drivetrain.

Dusterbd13 wrote: My head is chewing on a narrow v6 swap. Like a 300m drivetrain.

That's not narrow enough. Not even close. The only V6 that would have even a ghost of a chance of fitting without major surgery is a VW VR6. I was looking at one this past Sunday and I was reminded of just how small the engine bay is in those cars.

Part of the issue with replacing the transmission is replacing the half-shafts. Just about every modern replacement would use CV joints. The OE shafts use u-joints. When the half-shaft is a stressed part of the suspension, you don't want it to change its length.

Slippery wrote: Regarding the safety aspect, I was not expecting it to be at all. Like SV said, its a really flimsy fiberglass tub.

Fixed it for you.

I have an S2 and an Elite. There is a HUGE difference between the fiberglass quality, thickness, and weight between these.

A friend and I just moved the Elite body. 2 of us had to work very hard to hump one end of it. I can crawl under the Europa and lift it by myself. There is a lot less fiberglass in the Europa.

But yeah, modern safety is not what they were designed for. My focus is often racing, and they are harder to make race ready than a Mini (or even a Yugo), because of the fiberglass floor pan. Nothing to attach a roll bar to.

I have an S2 and an Elite

A type 14 Elite or a type 75 (or 83) Elite?

In reply to Ian F:

I don't think the VR6 would fit in the stock chassis, and still leave enough room for the trans.

I am using a watercooled 4 cylinder with an Audi Fox transaxle. With the engine tucked as far forward as possible in the V, my half-shafts still angle to the rear by about 1" IIRC. 2 more cylinders would make the angle on those half shafts pretty severe. Maybe a Porsche transaxle (I never tried).

The obvious answer (which many have done) is to chop the chassis, get rid of the "Y", and graft the rear of something else. That looses the Lotus rear suspension (which is good and bad). The bad is that you loose those long trailing arms (part of their good handling). The good is that you can switch to anything, and perhaps have more after market support for springs, shocks, etc.

In reply to RoddyMac17:

Oh, how I dream it was a type 14!

I fully expect Dr. Hess to finish his.

The first time that I attempted to buy a Europa was back in 1989. The guy who was trying to sell it to me told me that they are really expensive cars to own and keep running.

Incidentally, that car had a roll bar in it that was tied into the frame. It had already been rolled once.

In reply to SVreX:

The nice thing about the VR6 is it's about the same length as a 1.8T I4. It is wider than a 4, tho. I would assume using the VAG FWD transmission, which is an inline transaxle in the VAG B5 chassis (late 90's Passat & A4) mounting the engine lengthwise and not transverse with the trans the VR6 comes with. VAG tried to get the B5 engine as far rearward as possible, so the engine-to-axle line isn't too bad for a mid-engine installation. The downside is you would need to fabricate an upper subframe to attach upper control arms to as the CV axles couldn't serve the same stressed function as the OE half-shafts.

At least that's how it all fits in my head... Maybe some day a FRE will fall into my lap and I'll have the room and time to try it.

Woody wrote: The first time that I attempted to buy a Europa was back in 1989. *The guy who was trying to sell it to me* told me that they are really expensive cars to own and keep running.

In my experience talking to owners is they seem weary of folks interested in the cars. They often want the prospective owner to know what they are in for so the car doesn't turn into yet another Free Range Europa (which seem to greatly out-number good running examples when doing research).

Ian F said: The downside is you would need to fabricate an upper subframe to attach upper control arms to as the CV axles couldn't serve the same stressed function as the OE half-shafts.

This is what you'd need:

Banks Twin Link Kit

But, it appears that Banks only lists it for the Series 1/2 cars.

RE safety:

Litterally all the structure to the car is this

and a fiberglass body sitting on it. THERE ARE NO METAL DOORBEAMS OR SUCH.

Basically you are driving around a fiberglass coffin sitting on an I-beam.

Awesome cars, but they are Lotuses... Lots Of Trouble, Usually Serious. Fiddly and fragile. Cramped so that some stuff is hard to work on.

Also, sitting in one might change your love. I am 6'2" and daily drive a Miata. I sat in one with a sunroof and without really stretching I could poke my head out the sunroof to where my nose was level with the roof comfortable enough to drive it that way. I sat in another one and steered it while being moved from garage to garage, its claustrophobic and other cars will likely not see you. They are low enough that they may be even less visible than a motorcycle, but at least in an accident the fiberglass will fracture and throw you clear of the wreck.

I love these cars, I wanted one for the longest time, nogonnahappen. Would rather drive a formula car with a cage.