Lotus Europa - What's the deal with these?

In reply to Apexcarver:

Everybody dies - it's just a matter of when...

Would I drive one regularly in rush-hour traffic? No... probably not.

Motor: Wankel (short)

I've been monitoring this thread just out of mild curiosity, because I don't have any interest in Lotus products (or any deep knowledge of them for that matter), vintage or current. But I really don't understand the objective of this thread. Are we debating the validity of the original product, or what to do to convert the original product into a 2015 product, performance and safety-wise? Anybody considering the purchase of a vintage sports car should understand that trying to convert a 40-50 year old design into a contemporary sports car is a fool's errand. Vintage cars are what they are. They all have their quirks and foibles. We need to appreciate them for what they are ... or were. Ian mentioned the safety and performance aspects of his Spitfire. Good analogy. I feel the same about my Spitfire. Same is true for any vintage car. Don't expect to re-engineer a vintage car into a modern car unless you're a proficient automotive engineer/fabricator, or have an abundant amount of disposable income to have a pro do it for you. If you want a nice, reasonably priced, somewhat safe, decent-performing older sports car you can enjoy immediately, then buy an NA Miata. (I have one, so can post from experience). Otherwise, look for the best true-vintage sports car you can afford, Lotus or otherwise, and appreciate/enjoy it for what it is. (I have a vintage sports car as well, so can post with experience). But understand the consequences if you get into a drag race with a Corvette, or foolishly T-bone a utility pole at 60 mph.

In reply to Gary:

The objective of the thread was to try to answer the OP's original question- "What's so bad about Europas?"

My safety comments were specifically related to racing- vintage or otherwise. You can't build an adequate roll bar in a car that has no floor. And you can't add enough structure to make it adequate without ruining the wonderful things that make it a Europa.

The driving position is hanging outside of the chassis and all metal parts. That's going to be a safety challenge regardless of how you use it.

You did a nice job highlighting some of the generic positives of vintage car ownership, but that's not what the OP asked.

Gary,

I started the thread for a simple reason: I might want to buy one of these and drive it .... So I wanted to know what could keep me from driving since I see more are broken down than not.

To answer a few of your questions:

I own an NA Miata. I probably know them as well as you. The Lotus is a totally different car to me, not comparable.

I dont want to put a modern engine in it, that discussion was brought in by other posters. I dont mind them doing so as I learn in the process.

I actually dont want anything modern in it, but if you tell me the wiring is crappy then I can see me rewiring the whole car. It seems quite simple electrically to me, being carbed and not even needing a radio in my case.

Safety wise. It is what it is, I dont care. Not looking at driving this on I-95 in rush hour.

So put simply again, I wanted to know what usually needs attention and can keep me from enjoying the car for what it is.

Road and Track reviewIn reply to Slippery:

Terrific.

Like others have said, I recommend looking for the most complete car you can find, not a project.

Here's a good link to a R&T review from 1970:

That got weird. IPhone format fail.

They are a bit tough to get in and out of but worth it once in, and quite comfortable, even for a big guy.

Here's a crazy Europa thought:

The biggest detractor to me is the expense and frequency of top-end service required for the Twin Cam, or conversely the amount of custom fab work required to drop in a more modern DOHC engine.

But...shouldn't one of the Pinto-family of engines bolt right up to the stock bellhousing? It wouldn't rev like a Twink, but I think you can build comparable HP for way less $$$.

"So put simply again, I wanted to know what usually needs attention and can keep me from enjoying the car for what it is."

This is the reason to own and endure a Lotus. The car is a study in lightness and Colin was the master.

I was the care taker of a series 1 Elan, living on the Monterey Peninsula and other than Highway 1, I never drove it longing for a 5 speed. The car was in it's zone and the driving experience was one that has left the mark's one would expect. Then we moved to southern California.

Our home is in the mountains above San Bernardino where it snows. No not a lot but just enough to have me store the car near Riverside where it's bloody hot and surrounded buy highways full of traffic that could care less. The car has been sold (in 1990), my wife is a nurse (in part paid for by the Elan) and today I have a '95 Miata.

The closer to "stock" your car is the more you will come to marvel at what Mr. Chapman was able to do with so little. The current condition of Tim's car is what happens when things go wrong. But the location of his find tells me that right before the "off" the car was right where it was designed to be enjoyed.

There's very little that I can add to what's already been said, but I'd add that it's the most claustrophobic car that I've ever sat in. I'm 5'-11" and my head hits the roof by an inch or two. I suppose that a Gurney Bubble could help that, but if you throw in a helmet, the resulting bubble would be absurdly large.

In reply to Kreb:

I'd say it depends on your proportions. I'm 5'10" and fit with plenty of headroom. I have a 34" inseam. Getting in/out is slightly less graceful than an Elise, mainly because under no circumstances can you use the door to brace yourself. A helmet is not relevant as using this car for anything requiring a helmet ain't happening.

As far as feeling claustrophobic, I don't think it's any worse than my Spitfire with the top up or hardtop.

The Europas are fantastic cars with the usual early Lotus reliability.

If you need to ask 'why?' then you have never driven one. You'd be hooked.

I have secret lust for a new chassis with restored body, with a modern transaxle with a tuned LNF Ecotec in there - nothing crazy, maybe 400 bhp or so.......

I love these. Of all the cars I've driven, its within the top two or three for best drive, regardless of price.

Know a guy that has had several. He sold his last one and got a Morgan Aero8 as he's getting older and doesn't bend as well anymore. He's about 6'5" also. He would take the drivers seat out, remove all the mounts and sliders and just set the seat in place. Him sitting in the seat with lap and shoulder belts held both him and the seat in just fine.

In reply to Slippery:

Whenever these three cars are parked anywhere together, people always walk right past the two white cars to have a good look at the green one.

Since yesterday I have been searching for a twin cam one. I'll keep slowly looking until I find what I think is the right car.

I did find a very nice single cam one for $8k near Chicago. I rather keep looking for a twin cam.

In reply to Slippery:

I prefer the S1 styling, but given some of their shortcomings I'd settle for an S2. Though performance-wise I'm not sure that would really do?

TR8owner wrote: In reply to Slippery: Whenever these three cars are parked anywhere together, people always walk right past the two white cars to have a good look at the green one.

I prefer the one in the middle! The 8's are so under-appreciated. That would definitely be my preference over a Europa. Especially when you fire it up.

Europas do not have any performance improvement over an Elan as far as I know. I love them anyway.

In reply to Gary:

I've got the V8 power with my modified engine in the TR8 but I can't touch the Europa in the twisty bits. As for the 66 911 in the photo - its just plain slow in comparison.

Is this the car that to get into it you get on your hands and knees and crawl, a form of penitence before you are worthy to drive it. When I was in school in San Diego a professor drove one in the only proper color BRG. How low can you go? I'd love to drive one myself, looks fun.

benzbaronDaryn wrote: Is this the car that to get into it you get on your hands and knees and crawl, a form of penitence before you are worthy to drive it. When I was in school in San Diego a professor drove one in the only proper color BRG. How low can you go? I'd love to drive one myself, looks fun.

I'd say ingress is more a combination of slithering, and allowing your body to liquify thus you "flow" into the cockpit.

We visited a Lotus enthusiast/collector in NY Sat night during the American British Reliability Run. One of the cars in his shop was a Free Range Europa (although he had a brand new-looking engine that looked ready to go in). All of the cars in his collection were open for us to sit in (also owns a couple of Elan's (1 & 2), Esprit's (early and late) and a Elite (type 75). I sat in the Europa and confirmed I fit quite well with a few inches above my head and plenty of leg room.

As goofy as they look, a later Elite seems like it would be a great touring car. One issue with the Europa is it's essentially a run-about sports car. Cargo space is minimal at best.

Getting in/out of the Europa isn't much different than a Spitfire with the top up. Put your hand on the sill, sit down in the seat and fold your legs in. It's easy compared to an Elise.

In reply to Ian F:

I've sat in my brother's Europa several times. Extremely comfortable, just a baitch to get in and out of.