my (stupid) car prejudices

First off let me start off saying that I know I am wrong....But, I have these certain car prejudices that when looking for a classic car I just can't get past. I know this will tick a lot of people off, so please don't slam me too much because I already know I am going by weird prejudices that I picked up along the way and not by any actual experience with most of these cars. ...Japanese classics, Not interested. I see them all as having plasticy interiors, ill handling, small brakes, and rusting up to their door handles. (Few exceptions not withstanding). American classics, Not interested. I see them as big barges with drum brakes, nose heavy lazy V8's which don't steer, handle, stop, have thin bakelite steering wheels, vinyl slippery buckets if that seats. Fast in a straight line but...Over boosted brakes, over boosted steering, sloppy, sloppy cars. (Few interesting cars, but not that I'd desire to drive a lot). Swedish cars, I've had a lot of classic Volvos nice and durable, can be made to handle Ok, stop well, sensible designs, but somewhat dull. SAAB's? Why bothering enough but motors are in backwards and though some nice cars what is outstanding? French? ...Some cool off beat interiors then.... meh. German cars, Very well engineered, built, technical, but don't inspire me. British, ...Oh, this will piss everyone off...NICE garden tractors! and then some really nice High end OHC garden tractors Italian, beautifully designed, engineered, driving, fantastic machines all usually with one tragic flaw each, (at least one).

Ok, before everyone wants to hang me, this was somewhat meant to be a spoof and not to be taken too seriously. There are many cars of each of the nations cars that I "slammed" which I actually covet and respect. I just wanted to point out that I and most car people I know have certain tastes, (prejudices) and I find that kinda' funny. Most of my Hot Rod friends have prejudices down to the brand and don't understand my Italian car likes. My British car friends basically stick to just British cars, same with the Japanese car lovers etc. I grew up on Volvo's and American cars, but now probably would only buy Italian stuff. Flawed or not.

This is a great topic actaully because I think we all have them, I know I sure do. I grew up with Japanese bikes and they spanked everything else. Naturally this spread to Japanese cars. You could make them go fast for next to nothing.

While I like Lancia's, a couple of lesser Ferrari and Maserati models I won't buy one because I view them as unreliable rust buckets with outrageous parts prices

Porsches, Lancias , Alfa et al are all very pretty but for the price I can buy a fairly pedestrian Japanese equivalent and upgrade everything for fraction of the cost.

I also don't get Muscle cars as I started out with bikes and they are so much faster plus actually stop and corner. Not to mention they get good gas mileage. My brother and his friends were insulted when I called his GTO a bloated slow ill handling barge. My Yamaha way faster and was a joy on a twisty road.

The reality is all 60s and 70s cars rust ferociously. Datsuns are no longer dirt cheap. Even my beloved Japanese motorcycles have managed to get silly, 20K for a Kawasaki Z1, they are bloated ill handling things with dogey electrics......hmm this sounds familiar.

Tom

It is a great topic. Before I started the magazine, I too had severe car prejudices. When I got may butt kicked, at my first autocross in my mighty Shelby Mustang, by a Datsun 240Z, my world changed. A year later, I had a 240Z and loved it. I also hated British cars at that time, but after buying a TR6 in 1989, my eyes were opened yet again. I also never really cared for any Mercedes, until a few years ago. Then I bought that old Mercedes W111 sedan. What a wonderful car. It was so nice, I bought a W111 coupe to replace it. The more open minded you are, the more you can enjoy the hobby.

In reply to maseratiguy:

My prejudices generally align with yours. That doesn't really stop me from appreciating everything though. I'm one of those guys that could go to just about any car show and find something to gush over. I do think american muscle cars are somewhat lame (slow, ill-handling barge about sums it up) but I still gravitate toward owning them because I also view them as so simple they are easy to keep on the road. I hate breakdowns. Not that I haven't been stranded by an old Corvette a time or two...

Italian cars scare me from an upkeep perspective. It seems like the tragic flaw is usually something that makes them a ticking time bomb and/or very expensive to keep around. I know this is not universally true, but we are talking about perceptions. My desire for various Italian cars is strong, but this perception has in fact held me back a few times.

I view the British cars as somewhere in the middle of the spectrum between the Americans and the Italians in both terms of general desirability and "tragic flaws".

My bias has always been to Italian cars. And I think much of that is rooted with my dad- he's gotten some cool cars over time, and not so cool, too. In spite of owning an Elan and Vette, his favorite car was always a Alfa that he got new back in '59. Never got into the muscle car scene, and didn't do much with Asian cars, until that's all that was reliable enough for us. He liked the MR2 second most.

None of them were big- so I like small cars.

So for classics for us- which tend to be the late 50's to early 70's- my leaning has always been to Italian, and specifically Alfas. The reason I love the Miata was that in 1999, it was the Alfa Spider one could get- and it was really well done.

Never really thought that much for Japanese classics. And have no real appeal to the 510, which was my GTV's head rival. But that was only at the highest levels with lots of money. Had no real appeal to the BMW's- even though they may have been technically better, they were not faster, and in general colder to me. The coldness of German cars also has worked it's way to P cars, too.

And I don't know why British cars never have been appealing to me. Maybe it was the Lucas thing. It's certainly not a build quality thing- as all the Italians were going through the same labor strife as the English, causing the exact same build problems.

In the end, it's always been about Alfas to me. I blame my dad and genetics.

The OP sounds like my ex-. European only and even then with only a passing interest in anything Italian. Japanese: Small, rusty crap. American: Big, rusty crap. Unless maybe if it's a wagon.

Me - I like cars. Big, small, engine size, cylinder count, whatever... Where it was made doesn't matter. If I won the lottery, to say my car collection would be "diverse" would be an understatement.

To each their own...not the people but the cars. Each car has flaws but each also have their strengths. Some cruise the interstate with style, ease and comfort. Some just look great and you wear them like an expensive hat. Still others satisfy the performance minded while still being classic and cool while a few are a rolling display of wealth and status. About rust, it was not a big issue before the mid-sixties when cities liberally salted the streets to clear them of ice.

First off I apologize for the one big long paragraph in my original post. I thought I had separated everything into paragraphs when I originally typed it.

One of the cars I actually covet, or try to covet is an MGBGT. I love the looks and the size. Everytime I see one I sigh...then I think, ...90 push rod hp, rear drums, leaf springs, and lever arm shocks...and I sigh again. Deep down though I know a car is more than just a sum of it's specs, look at a Lancia Fulvia as proof. I realize I am being a "spec snob". Maybe next time I have the $$'s I should try driving one. They don't seem to be a lot of those $$'s. I know also that there are a zillion ways to improve it, Rover V8's coil over suspensions, IRS rears with actual discs too. TR7's and 8's also intrigue me along with TVR 280i's.....maybe I'm just weird?

Mostly Though I am an Italian car snob...or at least that's where my prejudices lie. I know they have bad reputations for reliability but I have never had many problems with mine, (other than problems any 30 year old cars have). I think most well maintained ones if driven regularly and not abused actually work rather well.

I spent around 20 years exclusively playing with Fiats. Talk about prejudice...I was on the receiving end frequently. I developed my own prejudice as well. I mean the Fiat 124 was so vastly superior to the rival MGB!

After I gravitated to German cars (euro Fords, Audis, VWs and finally BMWs) I realized there was a whole world of interesting stuff I had been ignoring. Then I risked it all and bought a British car (Mini) and found out they weren't so awful after all, even if the build quality was a step above something from behind the Iron Curtain.

A few weeks ago I bought a newer Mustang. Certainly no sports car and still inferior to those 1970 sports cars in several areas but I still like it. For me the prejudices were a detriment to trying something new. Not everything turned out to be a good idea (so glad I didn't buy that Opel Manta I drove) but ignoring the other flavors available is limiting your life experiences.

I like this post as well. I've had a few (or a lot) of everything it seems, from muscle cars, to British, German, Italian, etc. I think you pretty well pointed out the broad issues associated with many of the cars we love, but sometimes we love them because of those. At the end of the day its nice to have a choice, as they say. And like Tim says, if you take a chance you never know what car you may find.

My big biased at the moment is older GM cars from the '70's through the 2000's. I want to like them, and especially want to like a C5 Z06, but every time I look at them the absolutely cheap interior makes me turn my head and walk away. After a few years, they all look like rats lived there.

I do love Italian cars though, having owned dozens of Fiats and Alfas, and never found them to be all that unreliable.

The big fun is in having eclectic tastes, not getting stuck in a single make or type rut. I'm generally into small sports cars and sports racers, and anything wacky. Although my list is not long, the interesting cars I have owned includes a VW Karmann Ghia, a Jensen Healey, a NB Miata, and a Porsche 924S. I'll never have an expensive car or a collection but there are other ways to support variety. As a little birthday present for myself, I organize an informal event each year in my hometown (http://mainstreetdeland.org/calendar.cfm/mode/details/id/16314/recurringId/87812/cars-of-the-world). Our current entry list for next week follows. I will enjoy checking out every one of them. Come if you can.

1959 Turner Mk1; 1961 Panhard PL 17; 1962 MG MGA MkII; 1967 Sunbeam MK-2 Tiger; 1968 Mini Moke; 1968 Subaru 360; 1970 Volvo 1800E; 1970 FIAT 500; 1972 opel gt; 1974 MGB Roadster; 1974 MGB Roadster; 1975 Porsche 914; 1980 Triumph TR8; 1981 Citroen 2cv; 1981 Mini Metro; 1983 Jaguar XJS; 1984 Porsche 911 TURBO CABRIOLET/SLANTNOSE; 1985 Toyota Celica GTS; 1986 Porsche 911/930; 1987 Porsche 924S; 1996 Jaguar XJS - Convertible; 1997 BMW M3; 1999 Porsche 911; 2002 Porsche Carrera Cabriolet; 2003 jaguar xk8; 2004 Jaguar XKR; 2012 Porsche 997 Turbo S; 2013 Abarth 695 Tributo Ferrari; 2015 Audi R8; 2016 Porsche GT4

BillBall, that is only half an hour from us. Let me see if we can get a car or two over.

Never heard of the event!

That would be awesome. Just had a Berkeley enter (the car not the euphemism) and we will probably snag a Heinkel and an Autobianchi. Deland's monthly cruise-in is going on at the same time across the street. So something for every taste. Feel free to bring some Classic Motorsports material and hope the rain stays away!

Deland is about 80 miles from my folks I'll have to let my dad know.

The prejudices are fun I'll put up some more:

In the past I've refered to Kawasaki as the Fiat of motorcycles as dig on the electrics (Kawasaki's not FIAT) but I like Fiats. One of the reasons I disliked Kawasaki is because their 70s bikes handled badly, something that cannot be said of Fiat.

I "say" I buy Japanese cars because they are far more reliable then their German, British and Italian counterparts but the real truth is that I buy them because they will tolerate heaps more abuse (much like an old Dodge Dart). Yet I will not buy Hondas because they don't tolerate abuse, I hate the way they are engineered but whenever someone asks me for car recommendations it's usually a Civic or an Accord. If that isn't hypocritical enough the one higher end car I want is an NSX but it's not a Honda it's an Acura..........it's not lactose it's milk.

Tom

Really, it comes down to how small do you want to make your world.

Japanese classics and ill handling shouldn't be said in the same sentence unless you are referring to them defeating ill handling cars from non-japanese companies at the time lol.

By far the best most prepped car in autocross locally is a 240Z and it DOMINATES everyone. There is also a Datsun 510 there that shames many modern cars.

Japanese cars are anything but ill handling.

Really Japanese cars and Italian cars are identical from the era. Both rusted heavily. Both were often very good handling vehicles. Alfa Romeo in the later era had the same plastic interiors. There is no difference at all aside the sometimes bizarre design decisions that italian companies made like having inboard brakes. Japanese electricals were more reliable but when discussing classics the different is irrelevant. The difference is the Japanese car was meant for the regular middle class person to own on top of it. Not many people wanted to buy a GTV6 because it was overpriced and was surpassed or equaled by SEVERAL Japanese offerings.

I think you are over-exaggerating how good Europeon cars are due to some kind of nostalgia factor. They are not that great.

Poor electrics in any car was as much a result of being a convertible as any build quality.

.....the other reason I have a mis placed prejudice about Japanese cars is how insecure, defensive and intimidated their fans get when they perceive a slight towards them. Never mind that I already said that my prejudice was stupid and wrong, they still feel the need to defend themselves.

But I will say that the 510 interior was a plastic mess when compared to a 2002 or an Alfa. My parents 70's era 510 wagon, (not the beloved IRS 510's but the later ones), along with the B210's were ill handling and had crappy brakes along with many Japanese cars of that era. And yes, there are prepped cars that will beat others along with better drivers etc. that doesn't enter into it in this conversation. Inboard brakes are not a "bizarre design decision" it has to do with lower unsprung weight, some crazy car companies called Jaguar and Rover may have tried them also. ...and I'll take the GTV6, thank you. ...sorry I offended your sensitive feelings.

@Maseratiguy; the defensiveness is easy to understand, in the 70s all the Harley guys would tell me what junk my Japanese motorcycle was, I always laughed that someone would compare build quality of AMF with the likes of Honda & Yamaha. Many years ago a TR-6 owner was on the Datsun 1200 website doing the same thing.......a truly laughable prejudice comparing Leyland to Nissan.

Stock to stock for a given market segment I do think Italian cars have a clear edge from a driving standpoint BUT due to the price difference you can upgrade the brakes and suspension and have a big chunk of change left over. As for the B210 ill handling we'll have to put that in the prejudice column; a set of Koni dampers and Addco sway bars and they work great (they only weigh 1800lbs).

Now what isn't a prejudice is the incredibly hideous plastic fantastic interiors with signature melted dash. The styling of the sedans (non-hatchback) is really really odd.........its like the designer fused a car and a prehistoric fish. The only way to make them look really good is to park them next to a ZAZ.

Now on the subject of Eastern block cars, I assume they are all going to come apart any second yet a Bulgarian friend says that their saving grace is you can fix anything on them with a pair of pliers, two wrenches and some bailing wire. He absolutely hates Volkswagens, calls them the biggest hunks of junk ever built. There are a coupe of Skoda models I like.........this may have something to with saying Shhhhhhko-do. Kinda of a its just plain fun to say Mika Hakinen (sp).

Tom

Tom, I understand, which is why I started off by saying my prejudices were stupid and wrong. I actually love 510's, (other than the interior), 240Z's, RX7's, early Datsun and Honda roadsters. I also like British cars and I called them "garden tractors" but the British lovers didn't get all defensive on me, Nor did the Yank Tank crowd. I realize that with a little effort all of these cars can be great fun to drive....which is why I realize my prejudices are stupid. Even though I would prefer, say an Alfa, I would not turn down a deal on any of these wether it be a box Nova, 510, MGB GT, Rover P6, etc. if I found one.

It seems that the guys who like Japanese cars also have prejudices also. I was just pointing out mine. I also acknowledged that I knew I was wrong in many/most instances. I thought I was clear on that in the initial post.

In the end it is all about what is fun to drive in the way you like to drive and what you like to drive. My cousins husband loves BIG 50's - on up luxo cruisers, Cadillacs, Eldorado's, Lincolns etc. Though they are not the car for me but I appreciate that he enjoys them and I can see what he likes in them.

My friend likes Honda's, CRX's NSX's mostly, he has an Accord. I keep urging him to grab a CRX before they climb too high, (NSX is his dream car but out of his budget).

They like different things and neither would ever buy an Italian car because of their prejudices against Italian cars, I understand that. Just thought it would be useful to post. Again, I didn't want to step on anyones feelings.

@maseratiguy.......just last Saturday at a Porsche club track day I joked that I really had issues with my "disposable Japanese car" now being welcomed and worse yet thought of as a classic / vintage race car. I don't get defensive because the joy of being a car guy is I know my brand is the best. This is an indisputable fact and there's no getting around it.

One of the best jabs I've ever seen was from a friend who is a die hard Harley guy, bunch of friends were staying at his house over night, one of the guys made one to many jokes about his Harley leaking oil. In the middle of the night he snook out to the garage and sprinkled some rice underneath the guys Honda, everyone including the victim had a great laugh.

For a while we had a 65 Galaxy has a tow vehicle, that was fun to arrive in, it towed effortlessly and was super comfortable.

I bought my first Italian vehicle in 2011, A Beta 520RS Enduro, they do have a certain style that is hard to be beat.

I'm still bummed about the Lancia Scorpian deal that fell through 10 years ago, even though I know it was not really a traditional Lancia I still liked it.

Now as for car prejudices being wrong, well that's just wrong.......part of the fun as mentioned above, is telling your buddy his brand is wholly inferior to yours. You have to buy those T-shirts that say I'd rather push my Yugo 50 miles than drive 100 yards in a Bugatti etc.

One of the race cars I really want is a Datsun powered Mallock clubmans class car or a Lotus 7 replica.

Tom

Automotive stereotypes and prejudices annoy me....but probably not as much as the people who live by them. I own a lot of vehicles and, while many have their quirks, I have a hell of a lot of fun with them. I think the biggest losers in all of it are the single marque fanboys....they just don't know what they're missing.

Cotton wrote: I think the biggest losers in all of it are the single marque fanboys....they just don't know what they're missing.

Quoted for truth. I've known some that were so rabid they didn't want to ride in anything else. My problem is that if I only liked one brand, I'd run out of cars to buy in a year.

I prefer European cars, German in particular, then Swedish, then British and then everything else can be lumped in together. I grew up on big American cars and muscle cars and love them too. I'm more inclined to a GT car rather than a true sports car. The little two seat roadsters never really did much for me. I like traditional hot rods and show cars, lowriders and mini trucks as well. I even like to look at stanced cars, I wouldn't want to drive one, but they are pretty in pictures.

I like a broad range of cars. But it strikes me as a little funny that of the couple dozen or so vehicles that I have owned, they have all been GM with the exception of one Dodge and two BMW's