What do you consider a Roadster?

The recent Roadster sales count in a Classic Motorsports issue has restarted an old argument. What is a Roadster?

As anyone who views my picture here knows, I was a Summer Chicken but that was a lot of Summers ago. So long ago in fact that we used to have serious arguments as to what constitutes a Roadster?

As best my old mind can remember, most people I knew thought a Roadster had to be a car designed for the most fun at the least weight. Minimum requirements were three pedals on the floor, a shifter on the tunnel, a maximum of two seats, side curtains, & an ?erectable?, not to be confused with a raiseable top. And God forbid a power top!

Some argued that a heater or radio was needless weight. Others said a Roadster really should have wire wheels, though some claimed wire wheels flexed too much and didn't make the car as much fun so that argument was usually a draw. Still others maintained the windshield should be removable or should at least fold down. In short, we agreed to disagree but all pretty much still held true to our beliefs.

My opinions on a lot of issues have changed since I started driving on radial tires. I now believe many cars which we then called convertibles are probably today's Roadsters. (Think Tr-6 or Fairlady Datsun 1600.) However I still don't believe a car with a Targa Top, or a T-Top is a Roadster.

I stick with the idea of two doors and no hardware, except a roll-bar if desired or required, higher than the door other than the windshield. Only then are you out in the elements.

Am I the only opinion source, of course not. I'd love to hear what others might add to this thread. What do you consider a Roadster?

I believe the general definition is a roof-less car that wasn't intended to or have attachments for a folding soft top, although occasionally a removable hardtop could be fitted. Many of the early British cars started to blur the line with soft-tops that had to be "erected".

The most recent modern equivalents to get close are probably the Porsche Boxter Spider and the 1st gen Viper.

It seems that over time the original definitions of types of cars have blurred. Roadsters and GTs are probably the most abused. How about station wagons, now called anything but. Roadsters used to be cars that top completely removes or had a top as an after-thought and convertibles had folding tops. GTs were hardtop based, usually but not limited to being a hatchback or slantback. Could be a convertible or roadster with an affixed roof, though.

A minimalist, open car with two seats. I'm not one to get hung up too much on the specifics, though. An AC Cobra, Datsun 1600, Miata, or first generation Viper could all count.

Good replies all! Please continue the thread!

One other quirk from the old days I forgot to mention. Many believed an outside door handle was useless weight. A lock on an outside door handle was often considered an insult to the intelligence of the buying public.

Rupert wrote: A lock on an outside door handle was often considered an insult to the intelligence of the buying public.

Makes sense. If you have a soft top, only the most casual of thieves would find a lock on an outside door handle to be a deterrent anyway.

If it has two seats and a top that folds down, it is a roadster. The rest is just semantics.

If it is of British origin we would have to include a discussion about the proper ratio of leaks to square footage of top material.

a roadster(my opinion) is a topless car with a snap on cockpit cover,maybe zipper in the middle!

anything else starts to become a convertible,with many versions of one.

but i suppose you do need a windscreen,of sorts.

as usual with this site,PIC, what is URL,or type&paste. why isnt it simple like many just browse and add pix?

NOHOME wrote: If it has two seats and a top that folds down, it is a roadster. The rest is just semantics. If it is of British origin we would have to include a discussion about the proper ratio of leaks to square footage of top material.

I concur

WRT the OP, a roadster is an open car with two seats. I've never heard anything about the number of pedals. (...and I'm pretty sure that the term "roadster" dates back to the days when the throttle was a lever on the column like a model T, so I doubt that it EVER had anything to do with the number of pedals)

wlkelley3 wrote: It seems that over time the original definitions of types of cars have blurred.

A "Phaeton" is supposed to be a convertible with a back seat. This is a phaeton

This ought to be called a phaeton

This - despite the name - is NOT a phaeton

JoeyM wrote: This - despite the name - is NOT a phaeton

And, despite the name, it's not a people's car, either.

The traditional definition is very clear and I see no reason to amend it.

A roadster is a car that has a removable soft top AND side curtains.

A car that has the removable top but has roll up windows is a convertible.

A drop head coupe was a bit more variable - 2 doors, and 3-4 seats was often called that regardless of what sort of windows it had, but I prefer the Jaguar regime which called the roadster a roadster, but called the same car with convertible top and wind up windows a drop head coupe. The fact that the drop head top was usually a bit more plush with added insulation wasn't relevant.

While there can be discussion about the attributes of a drop head, the raoster is clear - no roll up windows. The last roadsters I can recall were one or two models of 1980s TVR and early Dodge Vipers.

There is a lot of misuse of the term roadster - MGBs are called that even though they clearly aren't.

MGA, TR-3 = roadster. MGB, TR4 = convertible.

Morgans are the last roadsters in production.

So its the rollup windows that makes the difference. My Morgan of course has side curtains and a REMOVABLE TOP. My TR 4 has roll ups with a REMOVABLE TOP as well. Now the TR4A and MGB have rollups and a foldable top.

At least I own one that is a clear cut roadster!

Leo

The original term was coined to differentiate a vehicle that was designed for higher speed travel on the better roads that were being constructed specifically for automobiles. The rest could travel over the same rutted tracks as horse drawn wagons. I would guess they were stripped of tops, running boards and windows that would cause extra weight and might blow away at great speeds over 30 mph and not for any reason related to style or model. You could probably add the pneumatic tire to the list of requirements.
Cheers Ron

JoeyM,

Actually the Model T did have 3 floor pedals. The left one was for high or low gear, also neutral. The middle one was reverse as well as a form of parking brake. The right pedal was the transmission brake to slow the car.

My original post included comments I frequently heard in discussions of the definition of a Roadster in the late '50s and up to mid '60s. I didn't mean them to be a definitive answer to the question. They were just examples of some ideas I had heard.

Thanks to you and everyone else for your input.

An old fart, which is everyone my age or older just called. He advised me the reason for the three floor pedals in his definition of a Roadster. It seemed that in the '50s both Chevy & Ford introduced cars which many of his peer group considered imposters of real Roadsters.

The first Corvettes and Thunderbirds came with automatics. So to keep the Roadster breed "true to tradition," they started saying three pedals were required for a sporty car to be considered a Roadster.

Leo Basile wrote: Morgans are the last roadsters in production. So its the rollup windows that makes the difference. My Morgan of course has side curtains and a REMOVABLE TOP. My TR 4 has roll ups with a REMOVABLE TOP as well. Now the TR4A and MGB have rollups and a foldable top. At least I own one that is a clear cut roadster! Leo

Trivia - the early MGBs came with either folding or removable tops that stowed in the boot, with the Mechano set bows you needed to assemble. My MGC has the stowing top, which is not as convenient, but does look better once removed than the folding top version looks with the top down.

Ah yes, I forgot. I have only had late chrome bumper cars. Good call.

Leo

I was taught that a roadster was designed from conception to be an open car, and a convertible was a coupe that was decapitated as an afterthought. That doesn't make it the true definition of either but that's what I was taught.