100 mpg X-prize winner in Lynchburg VA?

mad_machine wrote: maybe run it on LPG?

In terms of overall energy- that and CNG would be some of the best. Out of ground, filter, compress, and use.

calteg wrote:

JoeyM wrote: - but my cost per mile was lower thanks to the lower cost of the E85.

You sure about that? If you pay taxes, then you've subsidized the cost of ethanol in order to keep it "cheap."

If you're already paying for it, it's then cheaper to use it, than not use it

I did a bunch of engine work on a car that was supposed to be in the competition. It was some new fangled, top secret alternative fuel, and compression was 15-1. They didn't end up competing, but I got the impression that it was a political decision (on behalf of the organizers) that kept them out.

fromeast2west wrote: It looks like the Aptera. I wonder who thought of the design first? http://www.aptera.com/

In Millikin's Race Car Vehicle Dynamics book, they have a line drawing of a car shape that had a Cd of around 0.09. It has that exact shape and the research was performed by... VW

calteg wrote: Very Light Car looks interesting, but unfortunately GRM is a collective group of cheapasses who would rather buy a clapped out CRX HF

pulse and glide safely hazard enabled, but nevertheless, 80 mpg in a non lean burn civic: http://www.gassavers.org/garage/view/1164

Very Grassroots, my cuppa tea: http://www.gassavers.org/garage/view/2810

In fact, that is my direction too: http://www.gassavers.org/garage/view/1883

We should have a 20XX Challenge.

Not sure what the best way to measure it would be, but I could see builders here being capable of 80+ mpg out of a gas motor.

Perhaps use the same performance rules as the X challenge (minus the emissions, since that's expensive to measure- say needs cat or someting, and minus crash...).

I could vision a locost build using HF parts- 1000lb, slippery body, front runners. Maybe even 90mpg on gas.

That would be pretty fun.

alfadriver wrote: We should have a 20XX Challenge. Not sure what the best way to measure it would be, but I could see builders here being capable of 80+ mpg out of a gas motor. Perhaps use the same performance rules as the X challenge (minus the emissions, since that's expensive to measure- say needs cat or someting, and minus crash...). I could vision a locost build using HF parts- 1000lb, slippery body, front runners. Maybe even 90mpg on gas. That would be pretty fun.

That would be pretty awesome.

that would be VERY awesome. I remember when SCC used to have their Ultimate Street Car challenge.. one of those challenges was fuel economy

calteg wrote: Very Light Car looks interesting, but unfortunately GRM is a collective group of cheapasses who would rather buy a clapped out CRX HF

True.

JoeyM wrote: - but my cost per mile was lower thanks to the lower cost of the E85.

novaderrik said that, not me. Check your quotes.

alfadriver wrote: They should also factor in the energy it takes to make that energy. [....] But since this is just a stunt, then I wouldn't expect them to be *really* honest.

It's no more - or less - of a publicity stunt than the x-prize for private space flight was.

FWIW the "Well-to-wheels" type of life cycle analysis you describe is a good idea. Those types of calculations figured heavily in Joseph Romm's book The hype about hydrogen....he thinks small turbo diesels are much better for the environment than hydrogen. The x-prize doesn't even allow hydrogen, FWIW.

mad_machine wrote: that would be VERY awesome. I remember when SCC used to have their Ultimate Street Car challenge.. one of those challenges was fuel economy

Thinking about it- it would not be all that hard to factor one into a Challenge.

Say, the day before the competition starts, have a reasonably long TSD, where each competitor is given a specific amount of fuel in a specific fuel cell... Measure pre and post.

Have a separate set of calculations- or even just make a 100 point set up, too? One would need to time correct the TSD, so that one doesnt drive too slowly.

I'd suggest that any fittings/hangings that are used to fit the tank do not count toward the challenge, but the car would have to meet all NHRA and SCCA requirements and nothing can be removed from the car specifically for this part?

So concourse 25, total performance 100 (relative to the challenge competition) and fuel economt - 100? Since most of these cars would not be super high on the challenge speed- the fuel economy would weigh pretty heavy....

Eric

It won bitches.

Va. team wins $5 million for car that gets 102.5 mpg

WASHINGTON -- The team led by Charlottesville entrepreneur Oliver Kuttner yesterday won the $5 million Progressive Insurance Automotive X Prize, an international contest to design and build the world's first viable car that can exceed 100 miles on a single gallon of gas.

USA! USA! USA! USA!

Now THAT is cool.

Way back when, Holman and Moody built a diesel Capri that got something like 85 MPG and would boil the tires.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/05q1/al_gore_wasn_t_the_only_guy_flogging_an_80-mpg_car-column

I am just going to leave this here...

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/auto-x-prize-competitor-80mpg-87-mustang-with-musc/1458/page1/

Time to build a Bonneville style, belly tank streamliner powered by one of those little Subaru Robin diesels, me thinks.

The cool thing about the X Prize car is that, according to the rules, it has to hold 4 people. I don't know the test parameters, but anything that can hold 4 people and get 102 MPG is pretty damn impressive.

Of course, once it gets slathered with airbags, cupholders galore, nav systems, voice activated fuel door, drag inducing body cladding meant to make it 'look' fast and a gazillion other useless sales oriented trinkets it will get about 2 MPG.

Jensenman wrote: The cool thing about the X Prize car is that, according to the rules, it has to hold 4 people. I don't know the test parameters, but anything that can hold 4 people and get 102 MPG is pretty damn impressive. Of course, once it gets slathered with airbags, cupholders galore, nav systems, voice activated fuel door, drag inducing body cladding meant to make it 'look' fast and a gazillion other useless sales oriented trinkets it will get about 2 MPG.

I'm just wondering what an air conditioning system would do to the MPG. Probably wouldn't be good.

I'd rather have this: http://www.engineswapdepot.com/?p=552

While back Dave Coleman was involved in a project for BBC America that took an old Golf diesel that did 70mpg, 0-60 in 7 seconds, and cost $7k to build. I would link it for y'all, but can't currently find the article. I did find a thread on tdi club talking about it though.

I like it! Not something I'd put the kids in, but I'd commute to work in it...

Just saw this in the newspaper this morning:

http://www.startribune.com/lifestyle/103144679.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUUsZ

Recently a car drove from the Canadian border in Washington state all the way down to the Mexican border in California. That's nearly 1,500 miles. What was amazing about the trip was the fact that the car burned only 12.4 gallons of fuel. The car got an average of 119 miles per gallon.

This was not a weird experimental car made out of tissue paper, with the driver lying in a prone position looking out through a periscope. This was a real, two-passenger car that looks pretty normal.

The car, called the Avion, proved once and for all that it is possible to create 100 miles-per-gallon cars that can drive on real roads under real conditions.

Here's a link to the car's website: http://www.100mpgplus.com/

alfadriver wrote: We should have a 20XX Challenge. Not sure what the best way to measure it would be, but I could see builders here being capable of 80+ mpg out of a gas motor. Perhaps use the same performance rules as the X challenge (minus the emissions, since that's expensive to measure- say needs cat or someting, and minus crash...). I could vision a locost build using HF parts- 1000lb, slippery body, front runners. Maybe even 90mpg on gas. That would be pretty fun.

I'm in. How 'bout it, GRM?

I'd like to see it as a 4th component of the Challenge, but the scoring could be with or without. So, there would be a winner in the original 3 component event, a winner in the 4 component event, and a separate category winner for the MPG only.