'11 Mustang 5.0 vs. '11 BMW M3

How much power is your GT500 making? I was always under the impression that road racing GT500s ran out of rear end traction well before the engine ran out of potential.

AutoXR wrote: I am LOL-ing pretty hard at the comments that the Genesis Driver is some refined person with fine tastes in sports cars and Mustang drivers are knuckle draggers. I have 2 friends with 3.8GT Gensis and both think they are the fastest things on the road - usual comments "I bet the Genny would kill that thing" Here in toronto we have tons of them, usually driven by punks who try to race EVERYTHING. I have had sevral 3.8GTs and 2.0L try to race me in my 2000 SiR.. revving back and forth at the light, doing fly by's .. the reason they got them is that its a cheap performance car for the $$$ not becasue they are refined people with high tastes. After riding in the 997S my one friend said "I guess I didn't realize just how slow my car is" Gensis drivers feel the need to prove something . the guy in a 400hp Mustang wouldn't bother - he know's he's faster. Gensis = New IROC! PS: I work @ GM , Drive Hondas - Corvairs - Race a vette and a 997S ... I would def. buy a new mustang over the Camaro or the Gensis. Not because it can beat an M3 (who cares - how many $2009 challenge cars would lay a raping on an M3?) but becasue I like the car. Very few people will every drive either car to their limits. the Gensis is nice, so is the M3 , but 400hp for that kind of money is hard to argue with. actually I would probaby just get a used Z06 :)

Just for the record, I said that the Genesis owners tend to run from sports car enthusiasts to ricers and that Mustang owners tended to run from muscle car enthusiasts to gold chainers. There are plenty of shallow end of the pool owners for both makes.

MrBenjamonkey wrote: Just for the record, I said that the Genesis owners tend to run from sports car enthusiasts to ricers and that Mustang owners tended to run from muscle car enthusiasts to gold chainers. There are plenty of shallow end of the pool owners for both makes.

Did anyone tell Carroll Shelby, Parnelli Jones, George Folmer, Steve Saleen, or Jack Roush that?

Most of the people who buy Mustangs are not sports car guys. Some are, but not many in my experience.

Shelby is too busy making 4000 lb sports cars, Jones - eh, got me there, Folmer ditto, Saleen .... oh dear

and Roush, oh no ...

Forgive me for seeing a gold chain influence down on the shallow end of the Mustang owner's gene pool.

MrBenjamonkey wrote: How much power is your GT500 making? I was always under the impression that road racing GT500s ran out of rear end traction well before the engine ran out of potential.

It's at 576whp and I have no problem with rear end traction, but I also have a Griggs cambered SRA, torque arm, Watts link and 315/30 R6 Hoosiers. It will soon be at ~650whp as I have ordered a Whipple 2.9 twin-screw supercharger; this move isn't a craving for more horse power as much as it is a craving for cooler air temps, the larger twin-screw SC will offer cooler forced air then the stock roots SC, the added horse power is a fringe benefit.

In reply to MrBenjamonkey:

How long did it take you to look up the ugliest Saleen and Roush Mustangs? LOL You obviously don't watch much road racing. Mustangs have been almost continuously used in road racing since 1965, including Saleens and Roush's. I've yet to see a Genesis in a road race. Anyone can muck up a car, it's not exclusive to the Mustang.

GR40RACER wrote:

MrBenjamonkey wrote: How much power is your GT500 making? I was always under the impression that road racing GT500s ran out of rear end traction well before the engine ran out of potential.

It's at 576whp and I have no problem with rear end traction, but I also have a Griggs cambered SRA, torque arm, Watts link and 315/30 R6 Hoosiers. It will soon be at ~650whp as I have ordered a Whipple 2.9 twin-screw supercharger; this move isn't a craving for more horse power as much as it is a craving for cooler air temps, the larger twin-screw SC will offer cooler forced air then the stock roots SC, the added horse power is a fringe benefit.

Does it heat soak? When I used to run at Reno Fernley Raceway (r.i.p.) the guys with the 03-04 Cobras would make 500 + whp for a lap and then heat soak like crazy.

So let's be fair and show the serious Mustangs from Saleen and Roush.

bravenrace wrote: In reply to MrBenjamonkey: How long did it take you to look up the ugliest Saleen and Roush Mustangs? LOL You obviously don't watch much road racing. Mustangs have been almost continuously used in road racing since 1965, including Saleens and Roush's. I've yet to see a Genesis in a road race. Anyone can muck up a car, it's not exclusive to the Mustang.

I googled Saleen Mustang and Roush Mustang. Page one for the Saleen, page two for the Roush.

I know Mustangs have been road raced for a long time ... but most Mustang enthusiasts are more interested in drag racing. And while I do live in South Korea, I gotta say, I have seen a lot of Genesis Coupes on the racetrack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMuFnaKCuaQ Check this out, btw.

MrBenjamonkey wrote:

GR40RACER wrote:

MrBenjamonkey wrote: How much power is your GT500 making? I was always under the impression that road racing GT500s ran out of rear end traction well before the engine ran out of potential.

It's at 576whp and I have no problem with rear end traction, but I also have a Griggs cambered SRA, torque arm, Watts link and 315/30 R6 Hoosiers. It will soon be at ~650whp as I have ordered a Whipple 2.9 twin-screw supercharger; this move isn't a craving for more horse power as much as it is a craving for cooler air temps, the larger twin-screw SC will offer cooler forced air then the stock roots SC, the added horse power is a fringe benefit.

Does it heat soak? When I used to run at Reno Fernley Raceway (r.i.p.) the guys with the 03-04 Cobras would make 500 + whp for a lap and then heat soak like crazy.

It used to heat soak after about 15-20 minutes on the track before I installed a C&R dual pass radiator and dual fan heat exchanger, now I have no problems even on the hottest days at Thunderhill, Infineon or Buttonwillow.

In reply to MrBenjamonkey:

And how do you know this? Have you asked all of them?
I know a lot of them get drag raced, but I don't see a bunch of middle aged gold-chainers driving them. And PLENTY of them get road raced, PLENTY.

Meanwhile, the Genesis has no history at all. And every time I see one, it's a young kid driving it, not a sports car guy. I've yet to see one at an autocross or track event, and there's usually several Mustangs at all of those types of events I attend. Not saying all of them are road racing guys or sports car guys, just that your assertion that they are owned mostly by muscle car (it's a pony car, BTW) and gold chained types isn't accurate in my opinion.

GR40RACER wrote:

MrBenjamonkey wrote:

GR40RACER wrote:

MrBenjamonkey wrote: How much power is your GT500 making? I was always under the impression that road racing GT500s ran out of rear end traction well before the engine ran out of potential.

It's at 576whp and I have no problem with rear end traction, but I also have a Griggs cambered SRA, torque arm, Watts link and 315/30 R6 Hoosiers. It will soon be at ~650whp as I have ordered a Whipple 2.9 twin-screw supercharger; this move isn't a craving for more horse power as much as it is a craving for cooler air temps, the larger twin-screw SC will offer cooler forced air then the stock roots SC, the added horse power is a fringe benefit.

Does it heat soak? When I used to run at Reno Fernley Raceway (r.i.p.) the guys with the 03-04 Cobras would make 500 + whp for a lap and then heat soak like crazy.

It used to heat soak after about 15-20 minutes on the track before I installed a C&R dual pass radiator and dual fan heat exchanger, now I have no problems even on the hottest days at Thunderhill, Infineon or Buttonwillow.

Sounds cool man. Do you have any track videos?

This is still going? I don't get all the hate.

Both excellent performing vehicles for what they are - which is huge heavy cars with great motors and pretty good suspensions for delivering it. Why are we arguing which is "better"? Better at what? Road racing? They look pretty equal in that one category on that track but compared to a real road racing car they both suck. Compared to a school bus they are both awesome. There are things about the BMW that people are willing to pay extra for. There are things about the Mustang that has people lining up to get one.

Do we really need any more applications for decals where Calvin pees on something?

In reply to bravenrace:

I don't have anything against the Mustangs, but I do see a lot of them with hideous retro-isms and mid life crisis types. Never on the racetrack, but fairly regularly when I got back to Reno and drive around downtown.

And maybe it has more to do with location, because I live in S. Korea, and the Genesis Coupe is the sports car and Mustangs are usually, uh, bedazzled.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Do we really need any more applications for decals where Calvin pees on something?

I'm getting some special ones made where Angela Merkel pees on Calvin.

MrBenjamonkey wrote:

bravenrace wrote: In reply to MrBenjamonkey: How long did it take you to look up the ugliest Saleen and Roush Mustangs? LOL You obviously don't watch much road racing. Mustangs have been almost continuously used in road racing since 1965, including Saleens and Roush's. I've yet to see a Genesis in a road race. Anyone can muck up a car, it's not exclusive to the Mustang.

I googled Saleen Mustang and Roush Mustang. Page one for the Saleen, page two for the Roush. I know Mustangs have been road raced for a long time ... but most Mustang enthusiasts are more interested in drag racing. And while I do live in South Korea, I gotta say, I have seen a lot of Genesis Coupes on the racetrack. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMuFnaKCuaQ Check this out, btw.

http://wikicars.org/en/Saleen

Plus, Shelby/Roush/Steeda/Kenny Brown/Griggs/JBA etc.

The Mustang is whatever you want it to be.From the beginning, it has always been a platform for enthusiasts and racers to have fun, whatever the venue.

Whatever everybody's opinion is, there is one important fact that I'm not sure anyone has acknowledged yet (not searching for it)... This is a Mustang, and its being compared to an M3. Its not having comparo-tests with a Challenger or Camaro, people are testing it against the benchmark of performance in a daily driver.

So a new mustang is dead even in every perf aspect , yet still not really a sports car? Maybe put M3 badges on it and charge $600 an oil change to make people feel better?

Whatthehuh>?

Well, if we're nit-picking, BMW has never called the M3 a sports car. They call it a sport sedan. Some would call it a sport coupe. And while I'll concede that a larger percentage of M3's are/were tracked or autocrossed by their original owners (before depreciation made used ones more expendable), I'd still bet it's a small percentage.

mtn wrote: Whatever everybody's opinion is, there is one important fact that I'm not sure anyone has acknowledged yet (not searching for it)... This is a Mustang, and its being compared to an M3. Its not having comparo-tests with a Challenger or Camaro, people are testing it against the benchmark of performance in a daily driver.

Yeah, that's a landmark in and of itself. I can't concieve of ANY mustang matching the overall engineering prowess (or looks IMO) of a M3. But the fact that there's a serious discussion on the subject is a fantastic delelopment for Ford and enthusiasts in general. It's kinda like an athlete being compared to Usain Bolt after years of running with junior college athletes.

MrBenjamonkey wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Do we really need any more applications for decals where Calvin pees on something?

I'm getting some special ones made where Angela Merkel pees on Calvin.

Put me down for 2 of those stickers

How are "young kid" and "sports car guy" mutually exclusive?

All of your (everyones') arguments about who is a better stereotyper are pretty pointless considering the grand prize of being the best stereotyper means you're still a douche.

I vote we let the wild generalizations in this thread die out and talk about the cars rather than the owners.

Vigo wrote: I vote we let the wild generalizations in this thread die out and talk about the cars rather than the owners.

So begs the guy with the K Car collection. Coincidence?

I keed, I keed!

bravenrace wrote: So let's be fair and show the serious Mustangs from Saleen and Roush.

This picture is cool, since the team owner of that car still works at Ford in the Emissions Lab. Nice guy.

When I found out he was a team owner, I was pretty surprised.

Here's anothe Rehagen Racing view-

[This post made while waiting in line for a 2012 BOSS302]

Did someone say Mustang????