1/4 mile is no more

1320 now went to 1000

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/07/03/safety-concerns-cause-nhra-to-limit-races-to-1-000-feet/

i don't think that this change would have saved Kalitta

Now they'll just re-gear for 1000' and be just a fast.

so how much time will this bump off of a run?

TOZOVR wrote: Now they'll just re-gear for 1000' and be just a fast.

Yep. Things should be much safer now with the cars accelerating harder, being more likely to wheelie or spin out on launch.

I suspect there will be lower gearing overall, and much bigger tires if possible.

This is just stupid. If football fields were 90 yards long, would it cut knee injuries? Changing the distance changes the whole sport. How can you compare eras? A thousand feet is a dumb distance. .19 mile? What kind of distance is that?

Perhaps everyone could take a step back for a minute and rethink the engineering on these cars. The "fireball" problem has been lurking for a while. It was only a matter of time before someone died. Unfortunately, re-engineering these cars after such a tragedy would cost the sponsors too much money. So instead of doing something that would actually be effective, the NHRA will paint a few new lines on the track instead.

My interest in drag racing has now ended. If the NHRA really wanted to effect meaningful change instead of merely to be an effective organization, they would mandate sweeping changes to the cars and safety equipment.

When Garlits and Connie Swingle figured out the intricacies of making the rear-engine rail work, everyone realized it was ultimately the faster combination. Everyone changed to remain competitive and go faster. Does the NHRA value speed over safety?

It's time to get rid of the patchwork safety improvements and make sweeping changes for the benefit of everyone instead of the sponsors. If a company wants to sponsor a team, they shouldn't be ready to sacrifice the well-being of the people who drive the cars with their logo on them.

If they're going to do this...would they at least switch to the metric system fer cryin' out loud?

(I know there is too much red neckery, in general, to allow such a change to such a 'murrican motorsport...but it's gotta start somewhere. If you're going to make a big change...get some good out of it while you're at it!)

Clem

Jerry From LA wrote: When Garlits and Connie Swingle figured out the intricacies of making the rear-engine rail work, everyone realized it was ultimately the faster combination. Everyone changed to remain competitive and go faster. Does the NHRA value speed over safety?

They're just taking the cheapest kludge of an approach to doing something that they like to pretend actually has an impact on safety. That's what turned stock car racing into today's NASCAR. I'd hate to see what the NHRA turns into, I mean look at how rednecky it is now shudder

This came up in the early '80's as well (IIRC) and was shot down then.

Here's my dumb question: if you look at 1/8 mile times and speeds, they are certainly fast enough to get someone killed. How is cutting back from 1320 to 1000 feet, which is still 340 feet longer than 1/8 mile, really any safer?

The article even says trap speeds will still be in the 300 MPH range.

Well at least it's just the two top classes. Normal humans get to keep their 1320.

"Well, we want to slow the cars down a bit in the interest of safety, so we're shortening the track by 320 feet. Oh, don't worry. It'll still be exciting because they'll still be going JUST AS FAST AS BEFORE!"

But they'll have more room to stop if things do go wrong.

carguy123 wrote: But they'll have more room to stop if things do go wrong.

yeah 320 more feet at 300mph+

carguy123 wrote: But they'll have more room to stop if things do go wrong.

Because we all know that big balls of flame still have functioning brake systems.

Some of you guys need to do some reading on the topic. First, I agree that although this change was spawned by Kalitta's crash, it doesn't seem to have much to do with it. His chutes didn't blossom, and his car didn't slow down at all. But they were running on a track with one of the shortest run-off distances on the ciruit. The 1000ft idea originated from the driver's themselves, which I'm thinking have more knowledge of what's going on than any of us do. They'll still run 300mph, but shortening the distance has several benefits. One is that most of their engine damage occurs after the 1000ft mark. Second, whether it seems like it or not, the difference between 300 and 330 is dramatic as far as the energy carrried by the car. Third, as mentioned previously, it gives the cars 320 more feet to stop. Most of these tracks were designed for 200 mph speeds, not 330. Foruth, this only applies to top fuel cars. Pro-stock, and all slower catagories will continue to run on 1/4 mile distances. Fifth, this is an interim fix, and may or may not be made permanent. The fact is, they feel they have to do something, and this is something that can be done quickly. Lastly, and I'm not 100% sure about this, but I believe the NHRA dictates the rearend ratio on top fuel cars. If this is true, the teams will not be able to just change the gearing to make the cars accelerate faster. They will be able to tune the engine and clutch for that distance, but that wouldn't have the same effect that gearing would.

ignorant wrote:

carguy123 wrote: But they'll have more room to stop if things do go wrong.

Because we all know that big balls of flame still have functioning brake systems.

It should be pointed out that the vast majority of engine failures occur after the 1000 ft mark.

I got a great idea....eliminate the concrete wall at the end of the too short shut down area at the end of Englishtown.

If they were really serious, all they have to do is limit displacement and/or tires. All the power in the world is meaningless if the tires don't hook up. Does anyone really care if a dragster or funny car is hitting 300+mph or 200mph?

bravenrace,

the rules limit how HIGH the ratio can be, for some reason nothing longer than a 3.20 gear sticks out in my mind.

i heard it mentioned once that if that rule weren't in place, speeds would be much higher.

think about it, the cars are already making more power than they can put down at the line, regearing lower wouldn't help that at all.

minimac wrote: Does anyone really care if a dragster or funny car is hitting 300+mph or 200mph?

Seriously?

If people didn't care...there would be no cars going that fast. Of COURSE people care. This isn't spec racing...it's outrageous, over-the-top, flagship-of-the-sanctioning-body mechanical competition.

People don't go pay big dollars for World of Outlaws (just one quasi-analogous example) tickets for no reason...they could watch 360 sprints run at the local track any weekend night. They want to see the big circus show...

You'll notice there's no gate fee at an autocross...I'm just sayin'

There is a demand...top fuel is the supply.

Clem

Top fuel and Funny cars were just as exciting to the fans in the 60s, 70,s and the 80s, BEFORE hitting 300mph. Noise, smoke, close racing- that's what it's about. The announcer could tell you that a guy just went 400mph and you'd know the difference, Clem? I don't think so. Sitting in the stands, you can't tell if a guy(or girl) just ran 225 or 325. As far as sprints go, check out the so called Pennsylvania Posse- who, while they are locals, regularly kick the touring pros asses when they come into town. Some people come to see the "big names" but just as many come to see close racing at any given venue.

Sorry if you took my post as an affront...(way to easy to unintentionally come across as a jerk on the internet)

I don't disagree with the point that close racing is where it's at. Nobody wants to come see someone walk away with it (in any competition, typically). However, the general we-want-to-see-crashes-that's-why-we-watch-nascar" public wants everything to the extreme. It's hard (impossible?) to "back up."

That's all I'm saying. Lots of folks are goign to be unhappy if you slow a top fuel dragster down by 50%.

It WILL be safer.
The competition WILL be fun (equally so, in our opinions...agreed).

But it WON'T happen (realistically...in my opinion) because someone gotsta see 'em some crazy E36 M3. Supply and demand...supply and demand.

Edit: You know...heck, maybe I'm wrong. look at NASCAR and restrictor plates. Folks dog on them all the time. They ARE designed to even the field...however, the are blamed for increased dangerousity...so probably no the best analogy to use...I am sincere though, that maybe I'm wrong about it being impossible to slow down an (for all intents and purposes) unlimited racing class. I'm doubtfull though.

Pro racing is about a show. It, quite literally, is a circus (I've been one of the circus folk in a pro racing big-top).

Clem

bravenrace wrote: Some of you guys need to do some reading on the topic...

While I will admit my previous post was a knee-jerk reaction, I stand by what I said. Changing that distance changes the sport. In baseball, most hamstrings are pulled in the last ten feet to first base. Should we make the distance 80 feet instead of 90?

Now I realize a muscle pull is in no way comparable to Scott Kalitta's death. However, the change has to come from re-engineering the cars themselves. Just like the ballplayer who should look into better conditioning to avoid hamstring pulls, the cars need to be rethought. Changing the distance puts more emphasis on the "hole shot." There's less room for a "drive-around" win. With fewer ways to win, the sport will be safer but will wither away.

Right now, the two top classes are designed to be a. ridiculously fast, b. easy to work on, c. as cost-effective as possible, and d. safe. The order of importance must be changed. There must be more time than the current 65 minutes between rounds so flak blankets or fire bottles or whatever can be moved before the engine and clutch work commences.

Whatever the solution, the NHRA should just stop running fuelers and funnies until they come up with a real answer. After all, we stop the space shuttle program when there's an accident and don't proceed until there's a solution in place. Shortening the distance just so the NHRA can clear their conscience and continue doing business without too much interruption smacks as self-serving. Billions of dollars worth of business was lost along with all the astronauts lives, yet no one bitched and moaned about continuing the program before re-engineering the problems.

It's time for the sport to grow up and embrace change. In an earlier post, someone hoped the NHRA would not become NASCAR. Actually, NASCAR became the NHRA. There is no organization on this planet more resistant to change. That's why people in the know say NHRA stands for No Hot Rods Anymore.

minimac wrote: I got a great idea....eliminate the concrete wall at the end of the too short shut down area at the end of Englishtown.

My thinking exactly. 21 posts on this thread, and it's just you and me on this one. Hitting concrete walls head-on in any sport tends to be a disappointment. Blame everything but the obvious.

Notice that most runaway lanes in the mountain highways don't have concrete walls at the end of them. Usually soft gravel or sand to slow the truck down. This might be an idea, eh? But no.

SkinnyG wrote:

minimac wrote: I got a great idea....eliminate the concrete wall at the end of the too short shut down area at the end of Englishtown.

My thinking exactly. 21 posts on this thread, and it's just you and me on this one. Hitting concrete walls head-on in any sport tends to be a disappointment. Blame everything but the obvious. Notice that most runaway lanes in the mountain highways don't have concrete walls at the end of them. Usually soft gravel or sand to slow the truck down. This might be an idea, eh? But no.

You're absolutely right. However, I'm also looking at John Force's close call too.

I'm wondering if development hasn't rendered Englishtown obsolete for this kind of show. I haven' been there in 25 years. What's the area around it like nowadays? Is there enough room to fix the wal problem without ending up in someone's back yard?

Go to: http://tinyurl.com/6zz7e3 Englishtown Note the end of the track where the red dot is.

Thats the road out there. Note houses around the track. Racing stops at 11:30 PM I believe.

Nick

After looking at the cockpit of a funny car yesterday, I though, man these guys are crazy. There is much room for improved driver safety.