1991 MR2 Suspension Help

Ok looking for some guidance here from the MR2 experts.  We have our build log started and are planning the 2019 challenge car, basics are 1991 MR2 we are doing a 1m-fe swap. we want to stay within the gastropods rules for this year so no recoup, makes an impact on budget. So far we are $810.59 into our $2000 with car/parts car, bushing kit and ss brake lines. Our focus for this year is auto x and concourse so we would like to have some budget money to go towards paint and look good stuff.  There is also the list of deferred maintenance items, timing belt, hoses, other belts, ball joints and tie rod ends, so money starts disappearing quickly.

The bilstien setup on the front is very close to the tire so not sure it is correct, barely clears without any trad on tires. 

Current state of affairs is looks like there are bilstien shocks up front, and something rusted, leaky and bouncy in the rear. So I see a couple of options and would like some input from those who have gone before and maybe someone has some extra parts they need to get rid of.

1. Chinese Coil over setup, still in the $700 and up range with questionable quality and performance

2. I know someone is going to suggest yellow Konis, but at $160 a corner, plus everything else this starts to become an expensive solution

3. Find a 93 stock springs and cross member, replace rear shocks. These are supposed to be about 1" lower than the 91 and the 93 rear cross member is supposed to have better suspensions geometry. - Issue is finding one

4. Lowest cost, keep what is up front and replace shocks in rear. Probably not the best to have different damper in front and back

So hit me back with ideas and suggestions, out first build day is set of Nov 11th and some thing will get taken apart so there will be more news then. Not trying to buy something today unless someone has a great deal, we are just trying to look ahead and plan some .

Thanks

Mike

The Koni's are cartridges and you have to have the original Toyota struts to put them in.  They may or may not fit in some other brand, and probably "not."  So, unless you can find some blown OEM struts to use, I think that option is out.

I don’t normally recommend spacers but this may be a case where they make sense 

I know you said no Konis but that is cheaper than the cheep coil overs and you are getting a quality product. 

In reply to Dr. Hess :

I am sure they would not fit in the bilstien housing so I would have to find some used stock ones. Could be the answer. 

In reply to dean1484 :

Do you mean to space wheels out? They would have to go over an inch out to generate any significant space vertically. I am not a fan of spacers either.

The stock housings might have more clearance than those Bilsteins, solving 2 problems.

Maybe that's the wrong wheel/tire setup?

I'd look for a really good deal on 4 matchingish shocks. Either brand new cheapies on discount, or maybe oem takeoffs or something.

Keep your eye peeled on CL ebay and forums. Something good will come up, you just need to be patient.

In reply to Robbie :

That is one of the reasons to put rhis out was my intention to look for something used, just not quite sure which way to go. At this point I think oem take off are all worn out, but that may give me a rebuildable front strut. 

Your right in that time is on my side and we don't need anything for awhile so it's a good time to think.

The front wheels are probably the wrong offset and the tires are probably too tall- that spring perch looks normal for an MR2.  What are the wheel/tire dimensions?  I'd see if you can find a cheap set of stock wheels to put autocross tires on, I think Z32 300zx wheels and 5 lug RX7 wheels are also potential stock options.

If those Bilsteins are in decent shape I'd keep them, and if you have stock rear springs as well I'd say just get new struts for the back end and call it good.  The 93+ rear geometry isn't a big enough improvement to be worth hunting it down, it mainly makes the car less tail-happy which shouldn't be an issue with sticky tires and a good alignment.  You should be able to get the car to handle quite well with stock springs, 4 functioning struts, sticky tires, some sort of cheap homebrew stiffer front sway bar, and an alignment.  For a long time the hot ES autocross setup was pretty much struts, front bar, Hoosiers, zero toe, and all the caster and camber you can get.

Alternatively, if you really want coilovers so you can lower the thing and gain some tire clearance at the spring perch, there are 3 used sets on eBay.  Maybe lowball all of them and see if any of them go for it?

Tein Flex $700

JIC $799 In Jacksonville

GAB $769 Also In Jacksonville

Assuming they're in decent shape, any of them will probably be better than the brand new ultra cheap stuff.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

The front wheels are probably the wrong offset and the tires are probably too tall- that spring perch looks normal for an MR2.  What are the wheel/tire dimensions?  I'd see if you can find a cheap set of stock wheels to put autocross tires on, I think Z32 300zx wheels and 5 lug RX7 wheels are also potential stock options.

This^ can we see a picture of the wheels from the outside? Also what is the wheel size, offset and current tire size? Many cars have that style front strut where you can’t get too tall of a tire. 

The ultra cheap eBay coil overs would be decent for the challenge except for that giant bump in the parking lot. If you go that route at least find ones that list a spring rate. Really are a waste of money except for one time challenge use. 

In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :

Tires are 215/45 r 17 and I have no idea what the offset on the rims are. Something I'll measure when we start dis assembly. We are trying to stay in the gastropods rules so 250 tw tires are the restriction. I have seen the coil over setups you show in your next post, my concern it the cost for what looks like well used parts.

Couple of Solutions to toss out there.

1. Keep front as is, rebuild rears with stock springs and  KYB adjustable shocks. All done for $190, best budget wise

2. Get a pair of stock strut housings, stock springs, and the KYB shocks at all 4 corners $374 plus what ever I can get front stock units for. Good middle ground could fit in budget.

3. Add H&R lowering springs to either setup about $220, although there is a set on ebay for $180. Budget starts to get squeezed.

In reply to Fladiver64 :

That tire is about 1.5" taller than it should be, then.  Even with the right offset that's probably too much.

I would determine what kind of shape the front shocks are in and go from there- if they move appropriately without the springs on them I'd go option 1, if not then option 2.  With stock springs and higher treadwear tires you'll still probably want a bigger front swaybar.

Do like we do in ChampCar on my yellow #79 1991 Toyota MR2 GT V6 - 3MZ 3.3 liter. Move the upper strut mount 2" inward. AKA, put the outer two studs in the inner two stud holes. You need to cut the strut top on the chassis and weld in new steel. Oblong the top holes on the strut to upright mount to allow better camber angle.

Those Bilstein struts are really good. just use very good jounce rubber to keep from bottoming. I used E36 rear rubber to help. But at road racing speeds they were just not enough, which is why I went with a custom built coil over set.

Bill Strong said:

Those Bilstein struts are really good. just use very good jounce rubber to keep from bottoming. I used E36 rear rubber to help. But at road racing speeds they were just not enough, which is why I went with a custom built coil over set.

Custom built coil overs and challenge budgets get tough to work out. Thanks for the ideas.

Bill Strong said:

Do like we do in ChampCar on my yellow #79 1991 Toyota MR2 GT V6 - 3MZ 3.3 liter. Move the upper strut mount 2" inward. AKA, put the outer two studs in the inner two stud holes. You need to cut the strut top on the chassis and weld in new steel. Oblong the top holes on the strut to upright mount to allow better camber angle.

I really like this idea, would be a great fabrication project we had planned on making out own strut tower braces. So now we can add rebuilding hte strut towers as well.

After Bill Strong opined, nothing much to say. 

I have owned my 93T since new and also own a sub 10k mile 94 

80% of the stuff I learned about the MR2 has been From Bill from the other forum 

good luck. Share some pics 

Well decision made, we went with keeping the Bilsteins up front. When we pulled them apart they seam fine, added H&R sport springs that we got for $100. At the rear we went with the Bilsteins again to have matched shocks at all four corners, and again added the H&R springs. Black Friday had a $30 off on the Bilstein struts and that is the only discount I have seen for them.  This should give us a fairly good handling setup for the challenge. Big budget hit as pair of struts and 4 new bump stops $ 342.90

The tire clearance problem I think has three potential solutions:

1 Go with a 215/40 R17 tire which is .6" smaller in diameter so that should give me .3" more clearance. Since the tire/strut distance does not change with suspension travel we should be fine. - No cost to budget

2. Change the strut mount 2" inboard, would give us plenty of clearance and more tire choices. Just some steel and fab time - Estimate $25 budget hit

3. Change the rim size to 15" or 16", highest budget hit, least desirable.

1 should be the plan, but if you have a running car that is well tested and just waiting around, go for 2.

Agreed - if new rubber is no budget hit, that's the easiest way to get the height clearance you're looking for.

Depending on how much static camber you can get, you might consider notching the strut mount holes on the chassis or the holes between the strut and spindle.  Sure, this would eat away at some of the clearance width between the tire and the strut body, but you don't need a ton of room there.  I had about 1/4" on my LeMons 280ZX.

Pretty sure those Bilsteins were an option in JDM land.  If you need more camber, there are OEM 'crash bolts' that will get you a couple of degrees.

Edit, or as Bill said -- if you're willing to cut, the sky is the limit.  

Can't tell from the pics, but if the front sway bar mount on the strut has not been reinforced, make sure to do that - with more front bar and sticky rubber on the front they tend to tear off the strut body.  You can just cut and shape some steel to connect the mount tab to the spring perch and weld it up.

In reply to Benswen :

My concern would be the welding heat affecting the strut internals? I can see that being an issue though, good heads up.

In reply to Robbie :

I agree just nice to have options if that does not work out. Plenty of other issues to deal with.