2 post or 4 post lift?

Knurled. said:

One thing that sucks about parking under a 4 post (aka "drive on") lift is the lift takes up vertical room, and the ramps may be an issue too.  When I used to have to pack bays every night, pulling a car under the drive on was a pain because for all but the smallest/most narrow vehicles, someone had to stand there and hold one of the ramps up so you could drive under, even with the lift all the way up.

This is why you buy the aluminum ramps that are light enough to easily take off when you raise the lift.

codrus said:

Keith Tanner said:

Their narrowest 1:1 scale two post is 125". So it's 2' wider, but of course that's just a single post that sticks out while a four post stakes out a full footprint. Mine's rated for 10,000 lbs so I can easily lift my 3/4 ton. 

The problem with this analysis is that while it's "just a single post that sticks out", it's in exactly the wrong spot where the door of the car parked next to it needs to go.

That's what asymmetrical lifts are for.

Here's some pictures to illustrate where I'm coming from on the "width problem".

My garage is 20'x20' with a poured slab floor, 6-ish inch high concrete footings along the perimeter, wood-framed/stucco walls, 9.5 foot ceiling, truss roof, and a 16' wide double-door.  I can't speak for other parts of the country, but it's typical for standard single-family houses where I live.

The lift is on the left side of the garage, looks like this.  It's a BendPak HD9-ST, the narrow, short (length), short (height) lift -- basically the smallest 4-post they make:

There's about 1 foot of space between the footing and the post.  That's enough to squeeze betwee the post and the wall:

(I really need to get around to installing that Tire Rack Tire Rack)

The right-side post winds up a few inches shy of the centerline.  In theory, yes, I could move the lift slightly to the left to add more clearance, but if I do that then I'm losing drive-on width because it's now in the "shadow" of the 16 foot garage door.  As should be fairly obvious from this photo, moving this post a foot further out means the Audi would hit the mirror trying to pull in.

The Audi could be maybe a couple inches further over than this photo, but as it is I'm close to rubbing the passenger mirror on the edge of the door pulling it in.

So that's the basis for my saying that a 2-post lift is too wide for a typical (where I live) home garage.

As for the question of vertical stacking, there are some things you can do to help with that.  The first is obviously a high-lift garage door with a wall-mount LiftMaster 8500 opener.

In addition to raising the garage door higher than normal, this also makes it effectively "shorter" in terms of how much ceiling space it takes up because about a quarter of the door is still vertical.  This means that if you have a car with a trunk, you can line things up so that the door sits above the trunk and doesn't take away vertical clearance.  Miatas are good at this beacuse they're short. :)

Since my ceiling is 9.5 foot I have limited vertical stacking ability.  The Miata is 44-ish inches high, the FD is 48-ish, and I lose about 8 inches from the height of the runways, plus the 2x8s that the Miata drives on to clear the rolling bridge jacks.  That's 100 of my 114 inches.  The lift needs to rest on safety catches, and the latches for those are every 4 inches.  You also need to lift it 2 inches to release them, so that's another 6 inches or so of clearance gone.  That leaves 8 inches -- there's room to lower the Miata one notch on the safety catches and still fit the FD underneath.

Overall shot:

So yeah, I'd love to have a 2-post lift, but it just won't fit.

Great explanation.  Luckily i have more room.

Anyone ever buy the units advertised on Craigslist?  Atlas   or Triumph ?

How about experience with Autolift, or Nationwide?   (Google search results)

Any experience with Best Buy Auto Equipment?

I know BendPak and Rotary are trusted names.   But, if all i'm lifting is 2,000# cars,,, maybe an off brand 8,000# lift will do?

There is one 4 post i found that has 79" clearance underneath when fully up, but  $1,000 more.  

A few things in favor of four post lifts:

- In most cases they don't need to be bolted down to the floor, and they don't have any special requirements for the slab they're sitting on.

- Most have caster kits you can buy as a accessory that will allow you to move the lift around if desired (the caster kits only work when it's lowered)

- Some may disagree, but storing a car on a two post lift for extended periods could cause harm to the suspension bushings by making them hang at full droop.

BTW, a useful technique for figuring out if a lift will fit your garage is a variant on the GRM classic Cardboard-Aided Design.  Take down the dimensions, outline the lift on the floor with tape, then stack up some cardboard boxes such that they line up with the relevant edges.  Drive a car in, open the doors, walk around, get a feel for how things are actually going to fit.

Keith Tanner said:

That's what asymmetrical lifts are for.

When I was looking, all the asymmetrical lifts I could find seemed to be even wider.  BendPak's narrowest asymmetric one is 145", for example.

In reply to codrus :

Really appreciate the photos!

Two questions:  Which lift model is your bendpak?  How wide is your garage?  

I've worked on both symmetric and asymmetric 2 posts and there is not a lot of difference in the fact that your driver's door will never truly be happy. Not when you're using the lift to lift the car, anyway. The one parked underneath can just not pull all the way into the lift bay...unless you're space isn't large enough to park one car 4-5ft back from centered in the bay? In which case again your space is more of a factor than lift style.

I built my home shop deep enough that I could install the lift 5' further inside.  Now I can put a vehicle in the shop with the doors open, and still have the roll up door closed.  I recognize not everyone can do this with an existing shop/garage.

AnthonyGS said:

In reply to codrus :

Really appreciate the photos!

Two questions:  Which lift model is your bendpak?  How wide is your garage?  

It's an HD9-ST.  https://www.bendpak.com/car-lifts/four-post-lifts/hd-9st/  Wow, they got way more expensive since I bought mine -- tariffs, maybe?

Garage is 20 feet wide.

I'll try and take some pics of my garage/lift setup this weekend.  While Codrus has the narrowest/shortest (that even a word?) Bendpak 4 post, I have the widest/tallest one.  Not the longest tho, as that would've barely fit in my garage...

Purple Frog said:

I know BendPak and Rotary are trusted names.   But, if all i'm lifting is 2,000# cars,,, maybe an off brand 8,000# lift will do?

Depends on what you think is going to fail. The difference between a Bendpak and an unknown off brand isn't THAT big when you take all costs into account.

I definitely agree that the most compact four post is more compact than the most compact two post. If it's just a tall parking space, perfect. If you're having to put the lift 1' from the wall because you're trying to save every inch, it's not really all that useful for doing work on anyhow! All my comments have been from the viewpoint of using a lift to work on a car. 

Codrus, you wouldn't want to get distracted while lifting that Miata up in the air for storage! Do you have markings on the pillars to show you where to stop lifting?

Keith Tanner said:

Codrus, you wouldn't want to get distracted while lifting that Miata up in the air for storage! Do you have markings on the pillars to show you where to stop lifting?

I didn't add any.  The "all up" position has 2 holes visible on the safety catch "ladder bar" that runs inside each post, although they aren't visible from the location of the controls.  You can use them but it requires stopping the lift and moving a couple feet to check.

At this point I've put it up often enough that I know when it's the right distance from the ceiling -- after that I release the air pressure on the safety locks, lift it a couple more inches until they click, immediately stop (there's maybe 1 inch of clearance at that point), and set it down.

As for utility of working on cars, it's a lot more useful in that regard than you'd think and I use it for that purpose all the time.  It's a bit tight between the car and the wall, but there's enough room to walk around there and get the tires off.  Generally I'll raise the lift far enough to roll them underneath it to get them out, though.  It requires a few more minutes of prep to get the car onto it -- drive on, lift it 4 feet or so, position the rolling bridge jacks (rolling stools are very useful for this), lift the car off the runways, then drop the main lift down so it's only a couple feet off the ground so that the wheels are at a good working height.  It does take some time to shuffle all the cars around converting from "storage" mode to "work" mode, but that's true of any garage that's stuffed as full as mine. :)

The 4-post + 2x RBJ is an expensive solution and not as flexible as a 2-post.  OTOH, it fits in the garage I have and costs a lot less than tearing it down and building a new one!

Here I've got the FD on jackstands because I was replacing the clutch, so the rear RBJ is holding the diff up (it uses a PPF similar to a Miata) and the front RBJ was serving as a transmission jack.  The floor jack and 2x4 are for pushing the front of the motor up to help with reinstalling the tranny.

I have the caster kit for the lift so that in theory I can roll it over into the center of the garage to make more room on both sides.  In practice I've never actually needed it.

Another vote for 2 post.  I run a shop and we just added another two post bringing us to 5 two posts and 1 four post.  At this point we are thinking about moving the 4 post out of the main shop area so we can get another 2 post in.  Probably 3 percent of what we do is easier on a four post.

In reply to fiesta54 :

To be frank, shop-owner opinions don't count. It's your business to work on cars. The building is primarily set up to work on cars. Nobody will ever argue a 2-post lift is better than other lifts for working on cars.  But the needs of a part-time home mechanic tend to be more vague and need to weigh the cons of a 2-post lift when it comes to the space requirements.

I just wanted to say that you guys have amazing garages and collections of cars, and thanks for sharing your pictures of them! 

In reply to Ian F :

As someone who works in a shop, four post lifts berking suck for how much room they take up and how difficult they are to work around.  I would not want one in any kind of residential garage.

OTOH I would not want a 2 post lift either, they still take up too much room.

I am used to garages where you have to close the hood if you want to jack the car up and you can barely squeeze out the door when you open it.  Some of you guys' garages are larger than some of the places I've worked.

In reply to Ian F :

I think it counts.  At the end of the day it is up to the purchaser to decide what they want out of a lift when it comes to storage vs work.  But if they want to know which is easier to work with/on, who better to ask than someone that does it all day every day?

OTOH I would not want a 2 post lift either, they still take up too much room.

 

I am used to garages where you have to close the hood if you want to jack the car up and you can barely squeeze out the door when you open it.  Some of you guys' garages are larger than some of the places I've worked.

That's about where i'm at on the whole thing. Funny thing, a guy I follow on Instagram just moved to a place with a 650sqft garage. We were trading notes about lighting and I told him my little home shop is 500sqft. He told me that was still a fairly big space. I think he's trying to get 4 cars parked in his 650. In my 500 I can fit 1 car and... a small shop worth of toolboxes and shelving.  You can PARK cars in a tiny space, but working on them in it is complete crap. I would prefer to have 3 feet in every direction from my 1 car so i can move around it easily and i don't even have that with 500sq ft and 1 car.  Adding a lift to my space would make it worse, as far as i'm concerned! 

I think everyone would prefer a huge space with great lighting, and an awesome 2 post lift.  Unfortunately in a city like Dallas, that costs way too much.  I have a 2 car garage and need to maximize my space.

Now when I retire outside the city, then a personal shop might be a reality.  

A 3 car garage home in my neighborhood is $200k more than my 2 car garage home.  Upgrading is not an option.

At the risk of sounding like a real jerk, check out this sweet shop I built in my backyard last year!  I love every minute of hanging out in there.  The 2-post is a lot more useful for doing work.  The 4 post is just a storage loft.

In reply to Lof8 - Andy :

Now if only I could get two of my neighbors to move, demo, and the HOA let me build something similar.....  

This is why I will not retire in Dallas.  For price of my house, I could have a house, land and a shop......  but the commute would kill me.  

In reply to fiesta54 :

Again - most of here have some experience using various lifts, so the response to that comment is, "well... duh." 

All lifts have their pluses and minuses. So you choose the lift based on a combination of wants, needs and space limitations. I would not want a 4-post lift either if the primary use is for wrenching - which is why I bought a scissor lift instead 15 years ago.  Would I have preferred a 2-post? Sure. But it wasn't an option. And at the end of the day, I've been happy with the choice I made (happy enough that I bought a second scissor lift).  The garage I was working in couldn't fit a 2-post lift and the primary use was wrenching, but for many home users, the main use is not for wrenching - it's for storage.    

In reply to Knurled. :

That is my garage.  A 1.5 car long, single bay garage.  I can work on cars inside as long as they're small and I keep my stuff organized.  It's also one reason I have a fleet of little British cars.  My ex- has a big garage.  But she also likes to keep the cars inside whenever possible, so a fixed 2-post was a no-go, which is why I ended up with the scissor lift.  Plus, a scissor lift is fine when most of the cars you work on are FWD and under-chassis access needs are minimal, which was the case when I bought the lift - for working on MINIs.  And neither garage has the height to make use of a standard 2-post lift anyway.

In reply to fiesta54 :

Ian's absolutely right.  The way I use my lift is definitely not the way a shop owner would use theirs.  You're not going to leave a car up on a lift for 3-4 months at a time for storage.  The shop space is also built around accomodating a 2 post lift.  While I could fit a two post lift in my garage it'd be much more in the way than my 4 posts are.

I haven't found the 4 post lift to be a hindrance to deal with for the exact reason that I'm a hooby-ist and I'm not using it everyday and dropping motors/transmissions everyday.