2000 venture vibration in front HELP ME PLZ!

hello all. just got my wife the best van {my} money could buy. a 2000 venture WB edition. its in ok shape, and ive done a lot of work to it, but this has me stumped.

When its just me in the van, it drives fine, no apparent suspension/driveline issues. but, when i pack the wife, the kids and my parents into it with an additional 300lbs of stuff, it has issues. Under acceleration and during a right hand turn, i have a serious vibration coming from the right side. once at speed (any speed from 0-80 mph) its gone, rides just fine. during braking, its not there at all. only under accel or right hand turn. it gets even worse up a grade: like a bridge, during accel, it will damn near rattle your false teeth out.

now, at first i immediately thought wheel bearing. i raised the van, checked the wheels, and the the right side was VERY loose. Ok, no problem, get a bearing. well, i got the bearing, replaced it, and the vibration is still there. its SLIGHTLY better, but not significantly improved. so i pulled the left side, that bearing is new, as are some other parts (tie rod end, LBJ, brakes). It looks as if someone before me had this issue and tried to chase it down and gave up. I can't give up. i need this car and i need it NOW.

i did some online searching, and the two primary answers i found were wheel bearings and CV axles. obviously the WB's are good, so im leaning towards axles. when we did the WB, we did notice some play in the outer axle joint on the passenger side, but it didnt seem like a lot. should there be any play at all? will this play affect anything?

I REALLY need some input, hopefully form guys who have done stuff with heavy GM front drive stuff before. I dont have the $$$ to just throw parts at it, but i need to fix it.

suggestions? input?

Thanks in Advance!

-J0N

Did you get your alignment checked? Possible caster problem? Check suspension bushing wear?

This is a hard one...

almost sounds like an inner CV joint...

Agreed, before you said anything about the bearing or axle, I had a CV joint pictured in my head. I bet when you crawl back under there, you will find one of the boots split and having no grease.

ok, i will check the CV axle, but i can't just buy one and throw it on and be wrong. im too poor for that. i need it to be the answer. how can i verify? i don't see any split boots or any large build up of grease in the boot area. thats not to say it isnt there, i just dont see it.

how do I inspect a CV axle? what should be tight, and what should have clearance? Thanks for the help guys!

-J0N

You could do the jack up the front and run it with the wheel turned to the right, then just watch the axle for funny movements.

If you had a sirometer, you could just drive it and figure it out from there.

Have your wife drive next to you while you hit the gas (or have her drive the van).

Something is pulling that thing out of alignment and making it vibrate. It could also be a bad strut so check for leaks. Those SOB's can bounce and vibrate like crazy.

I put 50,000 miles on my Venture in the last 2 years and just sold it last Friday with 213,000 on it. Still ran great.

The bottom part (just drop the pan) of the TransGo shift kit will do wonders for the shifting performance of that tranny. You can buy them with the filter included for about $65 on ebay.

Rotate the tire front to back and see if it changes at all.
Check all the free and easy stuff...

Ranger50 wrote: Agreed, before you said anything about the bearing or axle, I had a CV joint pictured in my head. I bet when you crawl back under there, you will find one of the boots split and having no grease.

This would be my guess.

Lucky for you the axles are only about $50.00 a side.

Lucky for me at 225000 miles I haven't had to put one on the Wife's Venture yet.

Ok, i left out a few things, and have some corrections to make.

-first, it has 220k on it.

-second, the wheel bearings are BOTH new, and the tie rods are NOT. they are a little loose, but nothing real terrible. ive seen worse on 350HP GTP pontiacs and they pulled smooth as glass.

-third, the drivers side axle is not original. it appears to be a cheap parts store unit as the boot material is thinner and less pliable. it does appear to be in good shape with no play or looseness. the passenger side is apparently original, has the GM stamp, and though the boots are not torn, they are cracking and will tear soon. it has a tiny bit (maybe 1/64th-1/32nd) of axial play, and about as much side play. im suspecting it, but i dont really know. ive had axles completely come apart and 5 minutes earlier they rode fine.

-fourth, the a-arms are really close to new. im thinking under 30k on them. they look far to good to be original. very little cracking on the rubber, no play at all. the struts are dry, and the top mounts for them are solid.

-fifth, i replaced the front tires with new ones. no change.

so how can i justify a new right side axle, or even both axles, and then get it all installed and still have issues? how can i be sure they are torched?

Thanks for all your input!

-J0N

Have her drive the van, you drive next to it, and tell her to floor it while you watch the RF wheel.

Inner CVs vibrate worse when more torque is going through them and deflecting them more, ie the worst in low gears with the most torque multiplication, and less and less with every upshift.

If the inner CV is causing it, you will see the wheel vibrate when she hits it. I was in your position once and didnt want to replace something that i couldnt prove was bad, but watching it vibrate sure proved it.

Well, i can say this. it DOESN'T vibrate in 1st. but its very bad in 2nd and then 3rd is so-so and 4th its almost gone. i guess ill do the axle and hope for the best. i REALLY hope it makes it better...

-J0N

Cut the clamp on the large end of the factory inner boot. Lots of units that use the harder boots will gradually fling all the grease out past a not-quite-tight-enough big clamp. If its dry and icky in there, thats likely the one. If its wet and slimey, the "new" side is probably a low quality Chinese shaft. Your description really sounds like an inner CV.

As an aside, I trust junkyard axles with factory boots more than remans or aftermarket "new" shafts.

Sounds like a bad inner CV joint. Replace the right side axle. Are the motor mounts good?

sergio wrote: Sounds like a bad inner CV joint. Replace the right side axle. Are the motor mounts good?

Trans mount on the drivers side could be cracked or broken. It's realy easy to see, just pry back or remove that splash shield and it's right there. Only about $25 at NAPA. But, that's the wrong side.

If my tie rod ends had any play I'd replace them after I tried the pass. side axle.

i did inspect the motor mounts, and they seem a bit older but not damaged or broken. if anything a little stiffer from older rubber, but the motor doesnt move.

i found the shaft at autozone ( i think) for $47, so with an online coupon i should be about 42 plus tax. i can swallow that...barely.

ill change it tonight and well see whats what. ill update as well so others will have a solution should they ever have two kids at the same time (twins), have no money and two sports cars, sell one and buy a crappy van cause thats all they can afford and then chase stupid issues around for two weeks. cause i like to help.. :P

-J0N

ok, the CV didnt help, in fact it made it a little worse. i went ahead and ordered an A arm for the car. the LBJ does have some play and the front bushing seems soft. i hope this gets it, as ive replaced everything as of now...

input?

-J0N

I was thinking motor/transmission mounts too. Did you do the ole brake torque check? That usually makes a worn mount stand out. Also, did you check the rear suspension/bearings too? I've had a rear tire out of balance before and I would have sworn it was a front one out.

yes i did the the brake torque test. and i visually checked the mounts. all is well there. i didnt check the rears but i did rotate all 4 and no change.

ill update if the ARM doesnt fix it.

--J0N

Did you drive next to it and watch what the wheel does?

I'm going to ask the dumb question here, is the steering rack tight to the subframe?

EDIT- Is the subframe tight to the body?

UPDATE! I AM AT MY WITS END WITH THIS THING!!!

drove next to it, nothing. i can't visually see what happening when it vibrates. i cant narrow it down on my own, cause it doesnt shake when its just me in the car. has to be the whole family and gear to make it vibrate.

things i replaced: (recap) -BOTH wheel bearings

-PS CV axle

-PS A- Arm

-All 4 tires

-front rotors

Things ive checked: (recap as well, to keep it organized)

-sway bar links

-motor mounts

-tie rod ends (it IS out of alignment a bit, and the SLIGHTLY loose rod ends plus that MIGHT be causing it). ill fix that this week and get back.

-rear suspension and all rear rolling stuff (no issues)

-fluids and greases (nothing)

i just can find this damn vibration! its smooth in 1st gear, regardless of load, but immediately after it switches to second it vibrates hard from the right front. the higher the load the worse the shake. Also, when cornering right, the inside tire feels like it has a HUGE bubble on it, but it doesn't. its a brand new Bridgestone.

What can i do now!?!?! thanks guys...

-J0N

This is a longshot but if you grab the inner CV on that side and try to move it around, is the transmission itself allowing any play?

No. i suspected that, but its tight. i was thinking that the output bearings were gone or something.

Update: when i am accelerating on an uneven surface, such as a worn road that has long dips (12-18 ft long), and the van compresses and de-compresses with the ungulationg road, the vibration disappears when the suspension is De-compressed. i hope im explaining this well enough. not sharp bumps but rather mini hills that make the van ramp up and down. when the suspension goes up cause the road gets higher, it gets worse, but when the suspension goes down cause the bump gets lower, it vanishes.

what i can't determine is wether the vibration goes away cause theres temporarily less weight over the front tires due to weight shift on a bump, or if it goes away cause the alignment changes when the a-arms become more level.

i drove it 300 miles this passed weekend, and its fine to drive, except when accelerating. smooth at speed, 21MPG, no pulling but the steering wheel is off about 1.5 hrs to the right. i will have it aligned this weekend and report back.

-J0N

FOUND IT....finally.

DS axle. it WAS new, as originally reported, but dry. no tears in the boot, no grease in the wheel well. i think it cam dry from the parts store or wherever the PO got it. it came out in 4 peices with minimal force... :(

anyways, after both axles, PS control arm, both wheel bearings, both tie rod ends, alignment, and new tires, she rides EXCELLENT. actually handles pretty good too. i wonder if after the kids get a little older i can convert it to qualify for the streetfighter awesomeness thread?

-J0N