200k mile Honda K, what oil?

Wife's accord is approaching 200k. I have been running full synthetic for 10k since I bought it at 90k. It is starting to burn a lot after 5k. Should I just step down to every 5k with synthetic or high mileage conventional every 3k?

What oil are you running? Do you do analysis? Burning a lot after 5k makes me think it's shearing out of grade or something to that effect.

I would send out a sample to be tested to see what is going on before any change. It may be able to tell you why tge sudden use of oil.

Switch to conventional oil with a quart of ATF for an oil change. We've found that modern low-tension ring engines that lived a long life on synthetic can glaze the rings and start burning oil at a terrific rate. Switching to conventional oil for a change or two helps reseat them. The ATF breaks up the carbon behind the rings.

Accelerated consumption with mileage indicates that the oil is either breaking down, or is being burned but replenished with contaminants. Go long enough and you get more contaminants than oil, which gets reburned easier. (Most likely the former and not the latter in your case, unless your engine has the compression of a Briggs lawnmower with the easy start valve stuck on. If your car doesn't randomly fog the neighborhood, this isn't you.)

Although, really, 5k is a good mileage for a synthetic change anyway. How much oil is "a lot"? One quart in 1000mi? One quart in 200?

Also, Knurled reminds of something, how often does it see redline? Good for the rings to really wring it out (after it's warmed up!) every day or two. I don't think that's your problem, though it's kinda hard to know without knowing how fast it's using oil throughout the oil change interval, but it never hurts.

how recently did it start consuming extra oil? I had an oil change where I noticed abnormally high oil consumption, no spots on the driveway though so I thought I had developed a new problem. Turns out a slightly loose oil filter had caused my extra oil "burning".

Maybe go with a high mileage synth blend?

Kenny_McCormic wrote: Also, Knurled reminds of something, how often does it see redline? Good for the rings to really wring it out (after it's warmed up!) every day or two. I don't think that's your problem, though it's kinda hard to know without knowing how fast it's using oil throughout the oil change interval, but it never hurts.

This reminds me of an anecdote I read in a trade magazine.

Car is driven its entire life in near bumper to bumper city traffic. Engine is a very common import with no real pattern failures, a modern anvil. Runs fine, never burns oil between changes, good little motor.

Owner takes vehicle on cross country trip. Sucks its oil pan dry, engine siezes halfway between East Fumbuck and Middle of Nowhere.

Operating theory, which is as good as any: Engine built varnish on tops of cylinders where the rings don't sweep, as normally happens. Engine never saw any RPM higher than 2000ish. Take it out on the highway for extended periods at 3000rpm+, rods and everything else stretch a bit more, the rings travel higher than they ever have and start shaving off the ancient gum, which sticks the rings and causes rapid, massive consumption.

It was only a working theory but it makes sense given the scenario.

Now... have your driving habits changed lately?

In reply to Knurled:

I had a somewhat opposite experience once, car burned oil, maybe a quart every 1500-2000, mostly country and highway driving, moved to city, started beating on it to keep up, lots of WOT, holding speed in lower gears to have power on tap, etc, car quit burning oil.

And that in part is why I suggest a round of conventional oil. We did it as a way to save money on a 200k mile 3800 that had been living on synthetic but started to burn oil at about 1qt every 1500 or so. Put in the cheap stuff if it's going to drink it.

It stopped burning oil. Operating theory: Rings glazed over the years, conventional oil's somewhat lower lubricity helped reseat them. Maybe. Either way, it continued to not burn oil anymore after going back to synthetic.

After that, he stopped running synthetic in all of his vehicles, even the direct injected 3.6 that I have a whole boatload of "I told you so" ready to deploy if it urps a fuel pump drive lobe.

What year is it? There was a period around 08-10 on some k24 motors, something with the rings not sealing but some cars got warranties and some didn't but Honda never issued a full recall. Honda just hones the cylinders and puts in rings. I know this because my girlfriend has one and it burns oil but Honda wouldn't do anything for us so we just deal with it by keeping an eye on it and using a different weight oil. Something else along the lines that the motor was never meant for 0w20 but Honda had to meet last minute mpg and spec'ed a the lighter oil.

Yeah, that makes sense. I think I was running whatever name brand 10w40 was on sale back then, the car (A 2200 OHV 5 speed J body) was later put on a strict diet of 10w40 Mobil Super High Mileage (allegedly semi syn) on a 4k interval and the oil consumption remained low (though the beatings continued). Going to a conventional oil definitely won't hurt, but I suspect the flogging is more important, and the lack thereof is a bigger cause. Like most 3800s, I bet yours was rarely asked to deliver anywhere near full power/rpm.

You see glazing in sailboat diesels sometimes, because they only ever get used to putter in and out of the harbor at part throttle, or worse yet, just charge the house batteries with the alternator and not drive the boat. The preventative/cure is to run it wide open on the governor, full speed ahead for a minute or two every time you run it, or at least blip it to max unloaded a few times.

REmember that with Honda, 1 qt every 1000 miles is considered normal oil consumption.

That's pretty much industry standard for what constitutes poor enough to justify warranty repair, although I understand that 5.7l Z06s didn't get the rings replaced under warranty unless consumption was more than 1qt/200mi. Erk. In practice, a quart down by oil change time is real-world acceptable.

Teh Volvo has 220k on it and there is zero oil consumption. I change the oil every 3k at the most, however, and I use ACEA-certified synthetics, not whatever "synthetic" is on sale at Walmart that week.

Kenny_McCormic wrote: Also, Knurled reminds of something, how often does it see redline? Good for the rings to really wring it out (after it's warmed up!) every day or two. I don't think that's your problem, though it's kinda hard to know without knowing how fast it's using oil throughout the oil change interval, but it never hurts.

the old "Italian" tune up ... at least that was the excuse we used when I was a kid

Oil is castrol basic full synthetic, whatever it is called these days, in the recommended 5w-20. Filter is a long life type, typically Bosch, fram if the Bosch is sold out.

Driving style hasn't changed, mostly "highway" with a few miles of "city" at the beginning and end. This is wife's car, so I don't know exactly what the burn rate is, but I will say over 1qt/1000. It doesn't help that she racks up 25-30k a year.

Do what I did and change to 5w30 as was originally spec'ed for the motor, still burns but consumption goes down and I haven't noticed anything with the mpg. I'm changing my girlfriends oil tomorrow anyways and I've been using 5w30 walmart oil. Better now than when we first got it but still burns a bit.

Edit: saw you said Fram. Please don't. They are that bad. Wix/purolator from walmart is made in the same factory as bosch for much less. You can search around online and find cut up reviews to give you an idea what your paying for.

Knurled wrote:

Kenny_McCormic wrote: Also, Knurled reminds of something, how often does it see redline? Good for the rings to really wring it out (after it's warmed up!) every day or two. I don't think that's your problem, though it's kinda hard to know without knowing how fast it's using oil throughout the oil change interval, but it never hurts.

This reminds me of an anecdote I read in a trade magazine. Car is driven its entire life in near bumper to bumper city traffic. Engine is a very common import with no real pattern failures, a modern anvil. Runs fine, never burns oil between changes, good little motor. Owner takes vehicle on cross country trip. Sucks its oil pan dry, engine siezes halfway between East Fumbuck and Middle of Nowhere. Operating theory, which is as good as any: Engine built varnish on tops of cylinders where the rings don't sweep, as normally happens. Engine never saw any RPM higher than 2000ish. Take it out on the highway for extended periods at 3000rpm+, rods and everything else stretch a bit more, the rings travel higher than they ever have and start shaving off the ancient gum, which sticks the rings and causes rapid, massive consumption. It was only a working theory but it makes sense given the scenario. Now... have your driving habits changed lately?

I've always believed an engine takes on the personality of the driver. I've had cars that if I beat the living crap out of them, they ran great and never gave issues. But then when I start to drive them easy, problems arise.

It took me a little bit to learn this, so now any car I own gets the occasional run it like hell for a tank of gas, then resume normal operation for a few months, with the occasional run it like hell days.

Seems to be working for me and keeping things reliable. But of course, this could be all mind over matter.

Knurled wrote: That's pretty much industry standard for what constitutes poor enough to justify warranty repair, although I understand that 5.7l Z06s didn't get the rings replaced under warranty unless consumption was more than 1qt/200mi. Erk. In practice, a quart down by oil change time is real-world acceptable. Teh Volvo has 220k on it and there is zero oil consumption. I change the oil every 3k at the most, however, and I use ACEA-certified synthetics, not whatever "synthetic" is on sale at Walmart that week.

The Honda's that got free pistons and rings were buring a quart every 100 miles. They were burning through oil like a new Dodge Stratus.

I guess I never completely answered your question in the title. 5w30 Dino blood, and remove fram from your vocabulary. When I changed my girlfriends oil this morning I had to look in the manual for capacity (says 4.4qt but always takes 5qt) it recommends Honda oil (conventional) and says synthetic maybe used if it meets requirements so I take that as a suggestion by Honda to run dino

Knurled wrote:

Kenny_McCormic wrote: Also, Knurled reminds of something, how often does it see redline? Good for the rings to really wring it out (after it's warmed up!) every day or two. I don't think that's your problem, though it's kinda hard to know without knowing how fast it's using oil throughout the oil change interval, but it never hurts.

This reminds me of an anecdote I read in a trade magazine. Car is driven its entire life in near bumper to bumper city traffic. Engine is a very common import with no real pattern failures, a modern anvil. Runs fine, never burns oil between changes, good little motor. Owner takes vehicle on cross country trip. Sucks its oil pan dry, engine siezes halfway between East Fumbuck and Middle of Nowhere. Operating theory, which is as good as any: Engine built varnish on tops of cylinders where the rings don't sweep, as normally happens. Engine never saw any RPM higher than 2000ish. Take it out on the highway for extended periods at 3000rpm+, rods and everything else stretch a bit more, the rings travel higher than they ever have and start shaving off the ancient gum, which sticks the rings and causes rapid, massive consumption. It was only a working theory but it makes sense given the scenario. Now... have your driving habits changed lately?

Gotta watch that rod stretch

I'm thinking Dino oil with ATF and an Italian tune up. Should be fun.