2011 Challenge Rules

PhilStubbs wrote: That's what I figured, just wanted to ask before getting it done and showing up to race to just be told to go home. Lol

Only true Bob Costas are told to go home. Everyone else races for exhibition. Which seems like a consulation prize until you actually go and realize what the Challenge is about.

Ranger50 wrote:

Marty! wrote: I would like to appeal to the masses for clarification on this rule. F) Rubber or steel brake lines, master cylinders, rotors, drums, brake cylinders, calipers and brake pad linings may be replaced with new stock pieces. Original brake parts cannot be sold and then rebought to take advantage of this allowance. I will be doing either a Aspire brake swap (from the salvage yard) or a Capri XR2 swap (from my parts car). Either one will give my Festiva larger brakes. Which swap I do will depend on what wheel bolt pattern I want to end up with. Since I now have different brakes can I still replace rotors/drums/pads/shoes without taking the hit to my budget? Also for the rubber/steel lines part - does that include stainless steel brake hoses?

My oddball take is that you budget replacing all the stock pieces you are upgrading. Add up all the upgrade pieces to a total price. Subtract the upgrades from the stock pieces. That is the hit to the budget for upgrades, IMO. Brian

This brings up a particularly interesting point in regards to my build,also something i had pondered... looking on ebay the stock calipers for my car cost more than willwood 4 piston callipers by $5 to $10 can i exchange these and credit myself the difference? or can i just take off the stock ones and not sell them to stay within the rule guidelines to take advantage of this safety allowance?

No. Stock units only. If you're able to take off the stock ones and sell them off for less than the Wilwoods, then go for it, you'll be ahead on your budget.

Mental wrote:

PhilStubbs wrote: That's what I figured, just wanted to ask before getting it done and showing up to race to just be told to go home. Lol

Only true Bob Costas are told to go home. Everyone else races for exhibition. Which seems like a consulation prize until you actually go and realize what the Challenge is about.

I have been twice to help some members of a turbo forum we are on. It was a blast. This will be the first year I bring my own car though.

This will also be my first year by myself. I plan on doing a simple build on a car that's worth practically nothing. I'm aiming for the $1000 or under class, and I want to place in the top half. My target is the clown, because he's the fastest car under $1000. I'm 99% sure I'll never be as fast as him because he's a 100%er with plenty of other experience, but it's a goal.

Don't go overboard on your first solo build. Keep it simple and learn the lay of the land.

Ranger50 wrote:

Marty! wrote: I would like to appeal to the masses for clarification on this rule. F) Rubber or steel brake lines, master cylinders, rotors, drums, brake cylinders, calipers and brake pad linings may be replaced with new stock pieces. Original brake parts cannot be sold and then rebought to take advantage of this allowance. I will be doing either a Aspire brake swap (from the salvage yard) or a Capri XR2 swap (from my parts car). Either one will give my Festiva larger brakes. Which swap I do will depend on what wheel bolt pattern I want to end up with. Since I now have different brakes can I still replace rotors/drums/pads/shoes without taking the hit to my budget? Also for the rubber/steel lines part - does that include stainless steel brake hoses?

My oddball take is that you budget replacing all the stock pieces you are upgrading. Add up all the upgrade pieces to a total price. Subtract the upgrades from the stock pieces. That is the hit to the budget for upgrades, IMO. Brian

I don't think so.

Upgrade is an upgrade. Period. 100% of any upgraded brake item goes in the budget. You don't get to subtract some imaginary credit that you might have gotten if you built it another way.

The purpose of the rule is not to give yourself a contorted discount on upgraded brakes. The purpose is to insure that you don't take the budget so seriously that you would show up with NO brakes.

Derick Freese wrote: Don't go overboard on your first solo build. Keep it simple and learn the lay of the land.

I have been building cars for a long time and used to have a performance shop. This is far from my first car build. My last civic made 500whp for around $2500 car included.

Not trying to be pompous or anything, but I am building a serious car first time out.

Actually, I do have a question.

If I had a megasquirt in my daily driver, and wanted to also use it in a challenge car (split the MS between the 2 cars), how would it be calculated for budget purposes, or would it be treated as full price, regardless of how else it was being used outside the challenge car?

Full price. Orrrrrrr-find a way to FMV a slightly used megasquirt and provide documentation.

Zomby woof wrote: Actually, I do have a question. If I had a megasquirt in my daily driver, and wanted to also use it in a challenge car (split the MS between the 2 cars), how would it be calculated for budget purposes, or would it be treated as full price, regardless of how else it was being used outside the challenge car?

If you already own it, FMV. If you go out and buy it and put it on your challenge car, whatever you paid for it hits your budget.

Question number 2 from me.

Can fuel costs to pick up a car also be recouped? Or is it just the cost of the car itself?

Marty! wrote: Question number 2 from me. Can fuel costs to pick up a car also be recouped? Or is it just the cost of the car itself?

Yes you may recoup fuel costs as you have to count them in the purchase price.

I don't get it. How are you going to recoup fuel costs? You gonna sell fuel in the tank after you burned it already??

MrJoshua wrote:

Marty! wrote: Question number 2 from me. Can fuel costs to pick up a car also be recouped? Or is it just the cost of the car itself?

Yes you may recoup fuel costs as you have to count them in the purchase price.

Remember, you don't have to count fuel costs if you add some other purpose to the trip. Outlet malls, the beach, Disney, visiting a friend, etc...

That doesn't answer my question.

There's COUNT fuel costs (for pickup, etc), and DON'T COUNT fuel costs (as in "we didn't use it", "I was on my way to Grandma's", or race fluids).

How do you RECOUP fuel costs???

SVreX wrote: That doesn't answer my question. There's COUNT fuel costs (for pickup, etc), and DON'T COUNT fuel costs (as in "we didn't use it", "I was on my way to Grandma's", or race fluids). How do you RECOUP fuel costs???

This sounds familiar to me too, from discussion last year. If you use $25 of gas and go to pick up a $500 car, your budget takes a $525 hit. But on the flip side, if this car came with a lot of goodies, you can resell $525 worth of parts to free up budget room again.

At least, that's how I remember it.

OK. That makes a bit of sense.

So, we're not actually recouping fuel costs. We are including the fuel costs as part of the cost of the item, and we can then recoup the entire cost of the item (including the transport and fuel).

I get it.

Correct.

I spent $86 in fuel to pick up my $400 parts car. I just wan't sure if I could recoup that $86 when parting out the rest of the car or if I was limited to recouping the purchase price of $400.

Where is the event, and when is it taking place? Also, when is the registration due?

imd240zman wrote: Where is the event, and when is it taking place? Also, when is the registration due?

October 6-8 2011, Gainesville, FL.

I'm not sure when registration is due but in the past it was around August/September.

In reply to Marty!:

Alright, thank you.

I now have a question about fuel. I remember reading that any fuel was permitted, but is it really that open-ended or are there any restrictions? I am considering something fairly off the wall but don't want to break any rules. It has been done in racing before, but isn't currently used as far as I know.

Hydrazine??? Makes nitro look like water. And it was used in early race cars, and a bit in the 40s.

I looked into nitro a little bit, stopped when I started reading about the potential for combustion byproducts to cause lung paralysis. I like my lungs.

ansonivan wrote: I looked into nitro a little bit, stopped when I started reading about the potential for combustion byproducts to cause lung paralysis. I like my lungs.

I like speed! Wait, that came out wrong.