2013 Indy car series

What are peoples thoughts on the current Indy car scene? I really really want to be excited about Indy cars again, to be back in the pre-split world where world champions were happy to head over from F1 to race Indy cars. The last couple of years have been pretty good. The first three races this year have all been good events. The second round at Barber was a really good race with one yellow on the first lap then green all the way to the checker. The racing was clean and close. Different tire and gas strategy’s. Good racing and passing with drivers hunting people down, challenging and passing. In the pre Pirelli lottery F1 world a race that good would have us F1 fans on a high for days. I think the days of piss poor pay drivers with no right to be on the grid being a danger to themselves and others while making a laughing stock of themselves and the series Is behind is.

There are three current drivers with F1 race experience (Sato, Wilso and Bourdias) on the grid with six others who all had serious F1 tests in the past (Franchitti, Viso, Andretti, Tagliani, Dixon & Kanaan). I don’t think anyone in the F1 paddock would consider the top 10 Indy drivers as anything other than the real deal. So the talent is there.

The car is down to personal choice. Personally I like it. Once I got past the mental block of WTF are those pontoons doing on an open wheel car, I realized they make sense, and once you accept that not every car can look as good as late 80’s F1 cars and that evolution happens, I think they are better looking than the current F1 cars. Yes it’s a pity that we have a single chassis and only two (having lost Lotus last year) engine suppliers, but that doesn’t seem to be affecting the racing. It looks like due to financial constraints the idea of letting teams develop their own aero package has gone out the window for now.

Overall, I’m hopeful, let’s see if the season can keep my attention when it gets to the ovals, in the past even Indy can’t keep my attention for more than 5 mins before I fall asleep.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Overall, I’m hopeful, let’s see if the season can keep my attention when it gets to the ovals, in the past even Indy can’t keep my attention for more than 5 mins before I fall asleep.

I like the cars, but not the roundy round race parts.

I went to the one at TMS last year that had the Rallycross opener. IRL was boring by comparison.

Put them on a road course & I'll bet I could stay awake.

Yup, ovals aren't my thing, although I did enjoy the one Michigan 500 I went to. Check out the road courses, they are fun too watch.

I haven't watched many, but the new body bits, ugly as they are, allow for much more racing than before. I liked it, frankly. if I had more time, I'd watch it.

I was a huge CART nut in the late 90s/early 2000s before the effects of the split finally neutered that series and it was absorbed by the IRL. Since then I try and try to work up that same kind of passion, but so far I've failed to do so. I think part of it is because F1 has gotten a lot better these last few years, and maybe part of it is not having the free time to devote to watching racing on TV that I used to, I dunno.

But I will keep trying. The "Month of May" is usually pretty interesting.

One thing I think is really lacking is a decent feeder series. It's hard to tell with the 'Road to Indy' what the quality of the upcoming drivers is. Obviously it's turning out some great drivers, but it's such a shallow pool that it's hard to know. The Indy lights race from Long Beach had 10 starters, 3 wiped out on the first straight, and 2 more lost later. 5 finishers!!! There are only 11 cars entered in the series this year. Over in Europe there 26 entrants in both GP2 and World Series by Renault. That's 52 drivers in what are both arguably the step below F1. 11 Vs 52 in the one rung down position is a joke.

I'd love too see some of the great drivers who don't have the sponsorship skills head over to Indy Lights or Indy car to try their luck. Indycar does have a bigger field than F1 with a total of 35 drivers having scored points last year and 32 drivers entered for events this year (inc Indy) So perhaps some people are really serving their apprenticeship in the top line rather than fighting below as in Europe due to the 22 car cap in F1 (Bugger Bernie). I do miss the prequalifying days of up to 36 drivers trying to get on the grid.

I'm a big fan of all road racing, and the indycar series is the fastest road racing in the country, save F1 which only comes once a year, so I'm a fan.

This season has more talent and as close competition as there has ever been, possibly ever. The series does suffer from a lack of awareness, and a surprising amount of hate left over from the split (which I was too young to really care about; I just liked watching cars go fast ). I'd say, if you haven't followed it, you'd be surprised how good it is.

Pictures! pictures are always good for threads

I think this is a good looking car.

Much better than this, and I'm a Caterham fan!

I try but like many on this thread before me, to no avail.

I will stick to V8 SuperCars on youtube

Flight Service wrote: I try but like many on this thread before me, to no avail. I will stick to V8 SuperCars on youtube

YES!!! And I get to go see them down in Austin in a short while. I'm stoked.

Around here the only IRL action I get is roundy round hence the lack of interest. I sure wish they'd go to Austin!

Disagree. Modern F1 cars look much better than that early 90's F1 looking thing with aptly described "pontoons"

z31maniac wrote: Disagree. Modern F1 cars look much better than that early 90's F1 looking thing with aptly described "pontoons"

REally? I love F1, it's still the pinacle, the best sport, with the best drivers, but pretty they aint. And as for the DW12 looking like an early 90;'s F1 car. Wash your eyes out with soap and water young man. Nothing in open wheel racing will ever equal the beuty of the late 80's and early 90's F1 cars, and that's from a guy who likes the DW12

carguy123 wrote:

Flight Service wrote: I try but like many on this thread before me, to no avail. I will stick to V8 SuperCars on youtube

YES!!! And I get to go see them down in Austin in a short while. I'm stoked. Around here the only IRL action I get is roundy round hence the lack of interest. I sure wish they'd go to Austin!

So do I, but I'm sure they wont. Neither F1 nor Indy want a direct comparison of the two series on the same track. It's a PR disaster for whoever is slower.

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

z31maniac wrote: Disagree. Modern F1 cars look much better than that early 90's F1 looking thing with aptly described "pontoons"

REally? I love F1, it's still the pinacle, the best sport, with the best drivers, but pretty they aint. And as for the DW12 looking like an early 90;'s F1 car. Wash your eyes out with soap and water young man. Nothing in open wheel racing will ever equal the beuty of the late 80's and early 90's F1 cars, and that's from a guy who likes the DW12

Hahaha. I didn't say they were pretty, but they are purposeful looking.

The INDY car looks a ridiculous/cartoonish to me.

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

carguy123 wrote:

Flight Service wrote: I try but like many on this thread before me, to no avail. I will stick to V8 SuperCars on youtube

YES!!! And I get to go see them down in Austin in a short while. I'm stoked. Around here the only IRL action I get is roundy round hence the lack of interest. I sure wish they'd go to Austin!

So do I, but I'm sure they wont. Neither F1 nor Indy want a direct comparison of the two series on the same track. It's a PR disaster for whoever is slower.

That's what I was thinking as I typed that. So will Nascar decide not to go to Indy because the Aussie V8 cars are there?

I keep hearing that Nascar is coming to Austin.

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

carguy123 wrote:

Flight Service wrote: I try but like many on this thread before me, to no avail. I will stick to V8 SuperCars on youtube

YES!!! And I get to go see them down in Austin in a short while. I'm stoked. Around here the only IRL action I get is roundy round hence the lack of interest. I sure wish they'd go to Austin!

So do I, but I'm sure they wont. Neither F1 nor Indy want a direct comparison of the two series on the same track. It's a PR disaster for whoever is slower.

Didn't the Indycars run at Montreal not too long ago?

If I remember correctly, they ran Montreal with the crap wagon a few years back, and were like 10 seconds a lap or so slower than a F1 car the same year.

Personally, I really don't mind the new car. I don't like the rear bumpers, but it seems to race well. I wish they weren't all the same looking however, and I REALLY wish they had more hp.

it's crap.

'nuff said.

racerdave600 wrote: I wish they weren't all the same looking however, and I REALLY wish they had more hp.

At least they're not all Dallara- Hondas.

What IndyCar needs is, oh, a 21st century version of something like a turbine car. Set the damn place on its ear and got the world's attention.

stroker wrote: it's crap. 'nuff said.

Nice well rounded response.

carguy123 wrote: So do I, but I'm sure they wont. Neither F1 nor Indy want a direct comparison of the two series on the same track. It's a PR disaster for whoever is slower.

That's what I was thinking as I typed that. So will Nascar decide not to go to Indy because the Aussie V8 cars are there?

I keep hearing that Nascar is coming to Austin.

One of the NASCAR series could end up their. I don't think many people in NASCAR or the Aussie V8 series worry much about which is faster

racerdave600 wrote: If I remember correctly, they ran Montreal with the crap wagon a few years back, and were like 10 seconds a lap or so slower than a F1 car the same year. Personally, I really don't mind the new car. I don't like the rear bumpers, but it seems to race well. I wish they weren't all the same looking however, and I REALLY wish they had more hp.

Thanks, I wasn’t aware of that, they ran there before my interest was re-kindled. I went and looked it up. First of all finding good information was hard, there seems to be a lot of contradicting info out in Google land. Sticking with the race reports on Wikipedia the stats are as follows:

Indy car 2006 race
Pole 1:20.005 Sebastien Bourdais Lola Ford
Fastest lap 1:22:325 again Sebastien Bourdais Lola Ford

Indy car best times
Pole 1:18.959 Christiano DaMatta Lola Toyota
Fastest lap 1:20.634 Bruno Junqueria Lola Ford 2003

F1 (in 2006)
Pole 1:14.942 Alonso Renault
Fastest lap 1:15.841 Kimi McLaren-Mercedes

Best F1 times up to 2006
Pole 1:12.275 baby Schumacher Williams BMW 2004 Note 2004 was a blindingly fast race by any standards
Fastest lap 1:13.622 Rubens B Ferrari 2004

So the 2006 to 2006 the pole time was 5.063 seconds slower and the fastest lap was 6.484 seconds slower. Best ever times were 6.684 slower for pole and 7.012 in the race

Now if we look at the stats of the cars, that’s really not bad. F1 cars at the time weighed 1,326lb’s with driver (actually 600kg) Vs. the Lola Champ cars at 1,741lb’s with driver. Power was massive in F1 at the time 820-940hp from NA 3.0L V10’s, Champ cars were 2.65L Cosworth V8 turbo’ s making around 750hp as far as I can tell. So, the F1 cars had a power to weight ratio of 1.4 lb.’s/hp Vs. 1.83lb’s/hp for the Champ cars or a 30% disadvantage. Couples with a spec chassis and aero that’s not as bad as I thought.

But it’s moot really. It’s hard to compare the two series when the top F1 teams are spending supposedly upwards of €250m ($330m) for the red cows Vs. $100m for MArussia. What’s an Indy car budget? No idea but I get the feeling it’s less than a quarter of Marrusia’s to run a top team.

So yes, Indy cars are heavier, less power so no wonder they are slower. Does that make it bad to watch? Not in my eyes, I’m enjoying it and rooting for the series to stop shooting itself in the foot and increase in strength, competition and action.

I think Marussia's budget is even lower than that! Although with the "only top 10 teams getting paid" I think that will effectively push Marussia out.

But you've convinced, I'll try to catch a race here in the next month or two.

I am watching more Indy than I have since the IRL came and nearly destroyed open wheel racing in North America. The racing is pretty good, there are some charismatic young guys, and Hinch is Canadian.

I hate the street races. Processions, constantly paused by guys hitting the wall while diving in somewhere they don't belong. I would rather watch them on ovals, but if there were enough proper road courses to fill the year, I'd be good with that.

I've stayed with both IRL and CART just for interest, and now do like what the series tries to bring.

I'm not a fan of street races, for pretty much any racing- the tunnel driving makes it impossible to really enjoy. And some of the tracks that Indycar has used- well, it's not as if the huge bumps make them great.

I can deal with some of the tracks- so...

The road races are much better. Tiny mistakes of agression are not penalized with wrecked cars- but more lost spots. Much more interesting.

I do actually like some of the ovals. Indy used to be awesome, when you could go side by side into the corners, and make it work. But now- just barely off, and you spin- boom, you and whoever you run into are out. I think the re-paving of the Speedway really hurt.

Up until last year, the one mile ovals were horrible. Somehow, they think that close racing is interesting- it's not. All of the cars are the same, and it's more about luck of the draft. When they did the race where they put on the superspeedway aero, and the drivers had to DRIVE (gasp!), the racing was much, much more interesting. You saw drivers go off and then come back into the pack thanks to driving style and set up. You saw mistakes that took them out (which I do say I don't like in street courses). Most important, you saw a LOT of enthusiasm from the drivers- it was really cool to see drivers who CRASHED OUT tell the audience how cool it was that they had to drive, and they were having a balst. It wasn't whining about lack of aero, but adjusting back to driving and dealing with a car that changed a lot during a stint. Much better.

My big pet peeve about indycar- the tires. This goes for F1, too- good lord, can we get to a tire that does not degrade so bad that it results in a single line for all the cars? So bad that they have street sweepers that make Indycar yellows last forever, or the visible line in F1. Terrible. IMHO, they should use the rubber that the endurance guys use.

(FWIW, V8 Supercars = NASCARS- just with different bodies. Spec bodies/chassis with 'approved' engines, and it's very own sound. Interesting for a while, I suppose. but it would be better if they were real cars- like both used to be)