underpowered said:Injector issue, fuel leaking through causing a rich condition. Keep taking it back until they fix it.
Direct-injected, so that issue will be $$$$$$
underpowered said:Injector issue, fuel leaking through causing a rich condition. Keep taking it back until they fix it.
Direct-injected, so that issue will be $$$$$$
underpowered said:Injector issue, fuel leaking through causing a rich condition. Keep taking it back until they fix it.
Good call. BMW had a huge issues with that for a number of years.
CyberEric said:Are the techs even doing test drives after making changes to the car?! They should, and see the misfires happening immediately and go, yeah, the problem isn't fixed, back to the drawing board. The dealership I worked at mandated that.
Would you like to work on my car? :) On a serious note, how many misfires would you consider problematic?
Here's ~70 seconds of a short drive last night with the second tank of gas (half) provided by the dealership. This is cyl 1 current, cyl 1 historical, cyl 2 current, etc. I'm not sure of the period of the current and historical misfire counts (perhaps 5 and 12?), The service manager literally said: "Misfires in the 100’s and more are indicative of a true misfire...". I'm not sure if my math is correct, but at say 1500 rpm / 60 seconds / 4 cycles * 2 rotations = 12.5 combustion events per second. I don't think the car would move at hundreds of misfires, but again shows the lack of basic knowledge I'm arguing against. They've also said I should run fuel system cleaner and antifreeze. I'm not sure why they didn't do this when they had the car. I've asked for specific instructions (type, etc) and waiting to hear back.
0 0 2 2 - - - - - - - - - - - -
0 0 2 2 0 0 5 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 2 -
0 0 2 2 0 0 5 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 2 0
0 0 2 2 0 0 5 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 4 0
0 0 2 2 0 0 5 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 4 0
0 0 2 2 0 0 5 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 4 0
0 2 0 0 0 0 0 5 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 4
0 2 2 0 0 0 0 5 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 4
0 2 2 0 0 0 0 5 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 4
0 2 2 0 0 0 0 5 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 4
0 2 2 0 0 0 0 5 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 4
0 2 2 0 0 0 0 5 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 4
0 2 2 0 0 0 0 5 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 4
0 2 2 0 0 0 0 5 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 4
0 2 2 0 0 0 0 5 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 4
0 2 2 0 0 0 0 5 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 4
0 2 2 0 0 0 0 5 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 4
0 2 2 0 0 0 0 5 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 2 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 2 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 2 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 2 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 2 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 2 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 2 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 2 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 2 0 0 0 2 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 2 0 0 0 2 0 1 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 1 2 2 0 0 0 2 0 1 0
3 0 0 3 0 0 0 2 0 2 0 0 0 2 0 1
0 0 0 3 0 0 0 2 0 2 0 0 0 2 0 1
0 0 2 3 0 0 0 2 0 2 0 0 0 2 0 1
0 0 2 3 2 0 0 2 0 2 0 0 0 2 0 1
0 0 2 3 2 0 0 2 0 2 0 0 0 2 0 1
0 0 2 3 2 0 0 2 0 2 0 0 0 2 0 1
0 0 2 3 2 0 0 2 0 2 0 0 0 2 0 1
0 0 2 3 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 1
0 2 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 2 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 2 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 2 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 2 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 2 0 0 0 2 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0
0 2 0 0 0 2 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0
0 2 0 0 0 2 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0
0 2 0 0 0 2 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0
0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 4 0 0 0
0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 4 0 0 0
0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 4 0 0 0
0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 4 0 0
0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 4 0 0
0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 4 0 0
0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 4 0 0
0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 1 0 0 0 4 0 0
0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 1 0 0 0 4 0 0
0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 1 0 0 0 4 0 0
0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 1 0 0 2 4 0 0
2 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 1 0 0 2 4 0 0
2 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 2 0 0
And no I haven't called GM yet. I'm really mulling it over, I'm just not ready to trust again. :)
In reply to Snrub :
Your post should have read "So I just got off of the phone with GM Customer Care..."
"Mr Service manager, my car still runs like E36 M3"
"Mr Service manager, my car still runs like E36 M3"
"Mr Service manager, my car still runs like E36 M3"
"Mr Service manager, can you please direct me to your regional manager?" "My attorney has suggested that, while you are checking with Corporate, you also provide me with the name, address and phone number of the Regional Manager of GM Canada, as well as the name and address of the Chairman of the Board of Directors of GM North America." "And could you please write down your name and title so there is no confusion?"
Take the car to a different dealership?
docwyte said:Take the car to a different dealership?
If at all possible this is what I'd do. There are some very good GM techs but they're not working on your car.
Stop being a wuss with tens of thousands of dollars. Take it to another dealer or call gm.
Now.
wvumtnbkr said:Stop being a wuss with tens of thousands of dollars. Take it to another dealer or call gm.
Now.
No more callers please, we have a winner.
I started typing something about opti spark. Then I realized wrong LT1.
While not a lemon law, Canada in essence has binding arbitration for this.
In any case Call GM and escalate
http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/oca-bc.nsf/eng/ca02324.html
I wouldn't trust that same dealership with my car for an instant. If they do find the problem they're going to do a calculus: do we make it right and be out $$$$ or do we fix the problem and still claim it was bad gas and cost us less money? I bet they double down on the bad gas claim even after finding the real problem. They're in too deep at this point.
In reply to eebasist :
AFM has had issues on this motor as well
https://gm.oemdtc.com/3656/15-06-01-002f-engine-misfire-tick-noise-malfunction-indicator-lamp-mil-illuminated-with-dtc-p0300-set-2014-2018-cadillac-chevrolet-gmc
https://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/tech/knowledgebase/print-1291.html
Sorry man, I don't know why you are Bob Costas footing around this. Your almost new car that still has warranty isn't working. I don't mean to sound rude (after all, I'm also a Canuck), but being nice and being spineless are most definitely not the same thing.
Why are you afraid to escalate this? I just don't get it.
AND STOP WITH THE SELF DIAGNOSING NONSENSE! Your car is broken, it's almost new and has a warranty. Its not YOUR problem.
Weighing in as a GM tech. Just curious, how many miles do you have on the car? And what's the primary style of driving? Does it idle a lot? Direct-injected motors, like your Camaro, have issues both with carbon building up on valves (had a work truck with 35000 miles but a lot of idle time that had carbon the size of gumballs on the stems) and sticky/leaky injectors. A lot of the with these issues, we run a fuel induction service (we sell BG products from Deposit Control Systems) and they even have kits specifically for GDI engines now.
In reply to Snrub :
Every time you post a log or self-diagnosis, it’s more evidence that YOU are tampering with a vehicle that is under warranty.
Stop berkeleying around.
Your fear of GM is stupid. GM cares a LOT more about a dealer who is misdiagnosing cars and representing their product badly than about voiding your silly warranty. They are not gonna penalize you, they are gonna thank you, and then go after the dealer with guns blazing.
But only if you don’t tamper with their car.
doc_speeder said:Sorry man, I don't know why you are Bob Costas footing around this. Your almost new car that still has warranty isn't working. I don't mean to sound rude (after all, I'm also a Canuck), but being nice and being spineless are most definitely not the same thing.
Why are you afraid to escalate this? I just don't get it.
AND STOP WITH THE SELF DIAGNOSING NONSENSE! Your car is broken, it's almost new and has a warranty. Its not YOUR problem.
All of THIS.
Don't diagnose it yourself. All you are doing is wasting your time doing other peoples' work, and pissing off the people who should be doing it.
Your duty as a person who bought a car with a warranty is to see to it that they are fulfilling their warranty obligations. If repeated attempts to address the same problem are coming up blank, you need to go up the food chain.
Define “tampering” please LOL
SVreX said:In reply to Snrub :
Every time you post a log or self-diagnosis, it’s more evidence that YOU are tampering with a vehicle that is under warranty.
Stop berkeleying around.
Your fear of GM is stupid. GM cares a LOT more about a dealer who is misdiagnosing cars and representing their product badly than about voiding your silly warranty. They are not gonna penalize you, they are gonna thank you, and then go after the dealer with guns blazing.
But only if you don’t tamper with their car.
"Misfires are unable to be duplicated. Probable cause of misfires is unauthorized device plugged into DLC."
I HAVE seen those big brother insurance company tattletale devices cause weird problems because they don't play nice on the network. I have also seen aftermarket scan tools cause weird problems (plug in an original OTC Genisys with a certain firmware into a certain Chrysler product, watch the odometer start racking up miles).
Every major manufacturer has issued bulletins regarding third-party devices plugged into the DLC potentially causing issues. I would not put it past them to finally say, bark it, it's your chinesium eBay bluetooth dongle that is causing the problems because it did something to corrupt the ECM, your warranty is invalid because you tampered with it, now go pound sand.
NickD said:Weighing in as a GM tech. Just curious, how many miles do you have on the car? And what's the primary style of driving? Does it idle a lot? Direct-injected motors, like your Camaro, have issues both with carbon building up on valves (had a work truck with 35000 miles but a lot of idle time that had carbon the size of gumballs on the stems) and sticky/leaky injectors. A lot of the with these issues, we run a fuel induction service (we sell BG products from Deposit Control Systems) and they even have kits specifically for GDI engines now.
Kinda this. Fouled plugs are a symptom, not a cause. It's acceptable on a carbureted engine with a huge cam as a matter of course, but completely unacceptable on a modern engine.
My remote diagnosis is that it does sound like dribbling injectors. Man that would be difficult to properly diagnose on a DI car, other than replacing them, which doesn't look very fun on an LT1.
In reply to AngryCorvair :
Apparently no one needs to define “tampering”. Any more than someone needs to define “bad gas”.
The accusation appears to be sufficient.
I’ll bet $1000 that that dealership never tested the fuel, and didn’t even save a sample.
Bogus accusations are sufficient
NickD said:Weighing in as a GM tech. Just curious, how many miles do you have on the car? And what's the primary style of driving? Does it idle a lot? Direct-injected motors, like your Camaro, have issues both with carbon building up on valves (had a work truck with 35000 miles but a lot of idle time that had carbon the size of gumballs on the stems) and sticky/leaky injectors. A lot of the with these issues, we run a fuel induction service (we sell BG products from Deposit Control Systems) and they even have kits specifically for GDI engines now.
I've put on less than 1000 miles, most of them on the highway on the trip home from picking it up. The car has ~13,000 miles on it. Previous owner lived in a big city, average speed was low.
As for the comments about the rational nature of my fear of what GM will do, I had a bad experience not long ago with a big company. Not subjective, not difference of opinion. Flat out stolen from. IMO the only person looking out for you is you.
To everyone else - Thanks for the feedback. Today, I'll either set something up with another dealership, or call GM.
Snrub said:NickD said:Weighing in as a GM tech. Just curious, how many miles do you have on the car? And what's the primary style of driving? Does it idle a lot? Direct-injected motors, like your Camaro, have issues both with carbon building up on valves (had a work truck with 35000 miles but a lot of idle time that had carbon the size of gumballs on the stems) and sticky/leaky injectors. A lot of the with these issues, we run a fuel induction service (we sell BG products from Deposit Control Systems) and they even have kits specifically for GDI engines now.
I've put on less than 1000 miles, most of them on the highway on the trip home from picking it up. The car has ~13,000 miles on it. Previous owner lived in a big city, average speed was low.
As for the comments about the rational nature of my fear of what GM will do, I had a bad experience not long ago with a big company. Not subjective, not difference of opinion. Flat out stolen from. IMO the only person looking out for you is you.
To everyone else - Thanks for the feedback. Today, I'll either set something up with another dealership, or call GM.
Honestly, corporate GM is usually pretty understanding and nice and helpful. We've had cars come in with symptoms of flat-out abuse or negligence and corporate GM has still warrantied engines and other parts. Hell, we had a guy two years ago who called corporate GM and somehow got them to chip $200 towards diagnosing and repairing an ABS light on a '98 Buick. The dealer you have sounds like a bunch of clowns.
Call the GM number above and/or get a new dealer.
The dealer you you are dealing with is full of E36 M3.
Bad gas story is no good. They supposedly fixed it but now there is residual gas in the system. So what is it? Did they really do anything at all other than change 6 plugs. And who only changes 6 plugs on an 8 cylinder engin anyway?
How does data logging misfires void the warranty. Again a bunch of bs. Call gm be nice but be firm and point out all the run around that the dealer is giving you.
Do you have another dealer you can go to?
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