In a surprising move, Chrysler has done away with the Town and Country and replaced it with the all-new Pacifica in gas and hybrid versions.
You might remember that the Pacifica nameplate was used by Chrysler from 2004 to 2008, on a mid sized, crossover SUV. Apparently, in an effort to shun the minivan connotation, the Pacifica nameplate has been …
First, watch yourself on that "3,600 pound towing capacity" that Chrysler loves to claim. It realistically appears to be nothing more than a marketing lie, to one-up all the other vans with 'only' 3,500 pound towing capacities. Per Chrysler, this is what is included with the "Trailer Tow Group":
The Class II receiver hitch available on the Chrysler Pacifica models is a weight-carrying hitch rated up to 3,500 pounds of Gross Trailer Weight (GTW) with a maximum trailer tongue weight of 300 pounds.
Edit: The source for this info is wrong on the tongue weight...The current online owners manual does in fact state the expected 360 pounds.
Also, if you can sacrifice the towing capacity and stow-and-go 2nd row, the Hybrid has noticeably more comfortable and well bolstered 2nd row seats, gets appreciably better fuel economy (potentially using almost no gasoline for many people), ditches the ZF 9-speed that has generally been problematic for FCA and Honda, adds a 100k (150k in some states) mile drivetrain (including engine, motors, transmission, and batteries) warranty, and would ultimately cost thousands less (after tax incentives) than a comparably equipped gas powered model.
I don't care if Chrysler lies 100 lbs in either direction. I'm not going to weigh my load before towing anyway and i wouldn't be able to feel 100 lbs difference either way.
In reply to Vigo :
Yeah, but then there's that whole tongue weight thing. So now your advertised 3600 pounds, which is actually 3500 pounds, is realistically only 3000 pounds or less. But hey, for people who are going to ignore such manufacturer recommendations (liabilities) anyways, what's 500 or more pounds between 'friends'?
500 lbs is 2 fat guys in the back row of a Pacifica. So let's say you put 300 lbs tongue weight on the hitch of a Pacifica. Now you add the 500 lbs of fat guys in the rear seat. Is the rear suspension overloaded? We probably don't know because we don't know what's in the cargo area or the rest of the seats etc. There isn't enough resolution or specificity in tow ratings to account for the huge number of variables. That's why tow ratings are basically watered down to the abilities/liabilities of the weakest link in the system, which isn't a vehicle component but the stupidest imaginable yahoo driver who could walk back into the dealer and manage to cost FCA tons of money on warranty claims because he filled the back of his pacifica with bags of concrete AND put 300 lbs tongue weight on the hitch. And carried 7 passengers and towed a 3500 lb trailer. Through an off-road park, etc etc. CYA policy designed for worst-case scenarios, not reasonably intelligent people doing reasonable things.
The issue is that a 300 pound tongue weight limit on a 3600 pound tow rating would indicate that a vehicle component (namely the unibody at the hitch interface) very well might be the weakest link in the system. Shockingly (not really) though, it would also appear that there is some bad data out there on the internet as well. In actually looking at the current online owners manual, it contradicts the previous information I had found, and does state 360 pound max tongue weight. So if overlooking the extra 100 pound sack of dishonesty in their "best-in-class" claim, the potential safety concern does appear to be invalidated.
I think there is a Pacifica in my family's future. It seems to hit all the marks. I won't be towing anything major just a bike hitch. I did a quick test drive and found it a nice improvement over my Kia Sedona. We will have to relearn how to store our stuff in the different configuration of a van. Interesting how you get so fixed in a habit of where you store things in various cubbies.
The only issue is I wanted the Hybrid but darn Michigan government actually negates the tax benefits with special hybrid fees. That plus the cost quoted for the garage mounted charging station. Ugh!
Advan046 said:That plus the cost quoted for the garage mounted charging station.
You don't have a 120V outlet in your garage?
Driven5 said:Advan046 said:That plus the cost quoted for the garage mounted charging station.
You don't have a 120V outlet in your garage?
Just the layout of the property and thus where I might park it actually makes it more viable to have an exterior pedestal installed and if doing that might as well go 220. Maybe that is going to far into the perfect wants versus sticking with the minimum needed setup.
I haven't fully dropped it off the list. Just had my initial interest dampened down.
We looked at them, but honestly, I have NO faith in their build quality. Never met a Chrysler minivan in the ~35 years of their production, that had reasonable build quality.
I'm trying to think what my parents had to do to their last Caravan in the 250k before they traded it on Cash 4 Clunkers..
I'm thinking a belt tensioner, a belt... uhhh never an alternator, never a starter. Maybe a water pump? Oh i had to do a radiator.
I rebuilt the trans (myself) with seals+clutches at ~205k because it was starting to get 'morning sickness'. Spent about $500 in parts and fluid etc and it was still working fine at 250k. A lot of transmissions start acting funny due to rubber aging. Heck, my dad's original mitsubishi auto trans in his Diamante has been 'failing' for about 90k of the last 275k but i've been too lazy to fix it. But i mean what's the point replacing any of the original parts on a 275k-mile Mitsubishi. It was junk to begin with! 
When i'm putting the THIRD timing belt on it i'm drawing the line! Too maintenance intensive!
My odyssey seems to have issues with my 3300 trailer even with an aftermarket trans cooler. It doesn't feel unsafe or have any issues with controlling the trailer. It does bounce a little when the trailer goes over bumps but not bad. Unless I am doing it wrong. I always leave it in Drive but turn off the OD button so it says D3 on the dash so i would be real skeptical of any minivan towing ratings
markwemple said:We looked at them, but honestly, I have NO faith in their build quality. Never met a Chrysler minivan in the ~35 years of their production, that had reasonable build quality.
Serious question, what have you encountered? We had a Voyager when I was in high school that seemed to be fine when rust got it too bad for PA inspection at 16 years and somewhere north of 250k with no major service.
Now that I'm on my own with a few kids and dogs, we have two 05 town and countries. With over 300k between them, they're both still young and seem fine other than routine maintenance. The interior is even holding up to dog hauling and kid duty. Rust is starting to eat the one that's lived in CT all it's life, but it's 13 years old at this point.
My mom has owned nothing but used Chrysler minivans in the last 15 years. I can't think of any actual issues with them beyond rust and stuff that will need replaced on everything.
Chrysler is not all that bad. They suffer from the made in the USA stigma more than GM and Ford. Just as Toyota/Geo products came off the same assembly line but got vastly different reviews and ratings so have Chrysler products of the past gotten a poor rating more on name than actual performance. Plus unlike KIA which marched from low end consumer to middle and upper class customer base, Chrysler has been stuck with low to middle class customer base. My time in the warranty center as the power train engineer specialist taught me that enough Chrysler dealers and customers didn't care about destroying the name of Chrysler with shoddy maintenance. As in factory laser etched (maybe stamped) oil filter on a two year old engine that the dealer charged two years of maintenance on. And I saw about a dozen of those over two years from many different dealers. That was from an analysis of a small random sample of the warranty returns.
The Pacifica is built in Canada and a decent culture of quality plant. Decent for a North American plant. The fit and finish won't be designed to be Lexus level but I don't want a Lexus level minivan cost either. They last, like any car, proportional to the care put into them.
WonkoTheSane said:markwemple said:We looked at them, but honestly, I have NO faith in their build quality. Never met a Chrysler minivan in the ~35 years of their production, that had reasonable build quality.
Serious question, what have you encountered?
Since 1992, I've never not owned a Mopar minivan, and while they are not flawless - what car is? - I have never had a problem with build quality at all.
PSA: Pacifica Engine Shutdown Problem
Both conventional gas and hybrid models are completely turning off randomly while driving. Associated functions like the (electric) power steering are also lost. To the best of my knowledge, Chrysler has not yet even formally acknowledged the existence of a problem yet, let alone issued any type of cause and corrective action.
Pacifica Hybrid (yay $10k+ of free state/federal money) had been leading our search to buy a minivan by years end...But there is obviously something wrong with enough of them that we're not even considering any Pacifica as an option anymore. No amount of year end discounts and tax rebates are worth risking the lives of my family.
Goodbye Chrysler...Hello Kia.
Glad you found the info in time to make an informed decision. I for one hope they fix it. This is the same company that wouldn't let dealers sell vehicles with the then-new 9spd auto because they worked so poorly they decided they had to do a software update before they could deliver them. With this problem being discovered so soon though, Chrysler is completely out of the running for competing with GM levels of asshattery regarding the Cobalt Killer Ignition Switch. They'll completely go out of business before they have enough time to ignore a deadly problem for THAT long. 
WonkoTheSane said:markwemple said:We looked at them, but honestly, I have NO faith in their build quality. Never met a Chrysler minivan in the ~35 years of their production, that had reasonable build quality.
Serious question, what have you encountered? We had a Voyager when I was in high school that seemed to be fine when rust got it too bad for PA inspection at 16 years and somewhere north of 250k with no major service.
Now that I'm on my own with a few kids and dogs, we have two 05 town and countries. With over 300k between them, they're both still young and seem fine other than routine maintenance. The interior is even holding up to dog hauling and kid duty. Rust is starting to eat the one that's lived in CT all it's life, but it's 13 years old at this point.
Oh cummon. It's easy to bash Chrysler, what with the internet wisdome out there and all.
We owned two of them, well over 300K put on them between the two. both sold with well over 200K on them. I've never done A/C or heater work, never done rear suspension work, never done electrical work, never had an interior component fail/break. They were extremely reliable.
One of them had casting sand in the engine that caused an issue within the warranty period. Chrysler stepped up to the plate and handled it.
Our stupid Odyssey though, the power doors only work 75% of the time in warm weather, 20% in cold weather, pop and bang when opening. The power rear hatch doesn't work, interior fit and finish is the same as my Chrysler vans were, ergonomics show the same kind of forward thinking as my kids when they push the plate full of veggies away and say "I'm full", then say they are hungry when we mention dessert. That is to say, the ergonomics stink.
You can bash Chrysler, but having owned both, I say you're full of it.
We had one as a loaner when the dealer had the charger, fixing a problem that another dealer that performed a recall had caused. It was nice, the build quality was much higher feeling than anything I've previously had. I come from gm, i get the miles of plastic thing. The pacifica isn't that. It isn't a 99 caravan or even 2016 either. Interior is very nice. Now, ergonomics for me personally were weird, and I really hate shifting with a dial, but the guts are nice. The pentastar feels either denutted or in a heavier vehicle than the charger, but it's still a quick minivan. Not a Vigo hey let's crank up the boost on an 88 caravan quick, but definitely not 3.3 mitsu caravan blah.
FCA seems quicker at identifying problems(or admitting them) than the general. The charger had a recall performed for improper front driveshaft fastener torque, and the ram has a recall for water pump something. That's a silly one as it said it's recalled but there isn't a solution yet.
Patrick said:FCA seems quicker at identifying problems(or admitting them) than the general.
http://www.autonews.com/article/20160729/OEM11/160729809/fca-safety-recall-oversight-extended-by-nhtsa-for-another-year
http://www.freep.com/story/money/2015/07/27/fiat-chrysler-nhtsa-fine-recalls/30693265/
Wouldnt be too sure about that...
The pentastar feels either denutted or in a heavier vehicle than the charger,
All the rwd vehicles with the 8spd auto seem to punch above expecations. The fwd 9spd equipped vehicles on the other hand, don't seem to accelerate ANY quicker at all than the older 6spd models. I haven't driven one yet but i'm curious as to how poorly (slowly) it shifts at WOT, as i can't think of any other reason for all the FCA models to gain 50% more gears and not be any quicker in 0-60 or 1/4 ET tests.
I suppose the top 3 gears could just all be highway gears with semi-useless ratios. Lexus just released a 10spd auto that apparently only uses 4 gears WOT under 100mph. 
Vigo said:The pentastar feels either denutted or in a heavier vehicle than the charger,
All the rwd vehicles with the 8spd auto seem to punch above expecations. The fwd 9spd equipped vehicles on the other hand, don't seem to accelerate ANY quicker at all than the older 6spd models. I haven't driven one yet but i'm curious as to how poorly (slowly) it shifts at WOT, as i can't think of any other reason for all the FCA models to gain 50% more gears and not be any quicker in 0-60 or 1/4 ET tests.
I suppose the top 3 gears could just all be highway gears with semi-useless ratios. Lexus just released a 10spd auto that apparently only uses 4 gears WOT under 100mph.
The 8 speed in the charger is perfect. It's always in powerband if you hit it. It also lets me power brake and launch from 3000 rpm as if it had a high stall converter. I really enjoy that transmission, there's no need for the autostick feature because the computer is better than me at knowing what gear to be in.
Patrick said:Vigo said:The pentastar feels either denutted or in a heavier vehicle than the charger,
All the rwd vehicles with the 8spd auto seem to punch above expecations. The fwd 9spd equipped vehicles on the other hand, don't seem to accelerate ANY quicker at all than the older 6spd models. I haven't driven one yet but i'm curious as to how poorly (slowly) it shifts at WOT, as i can't think of any other reason for all the FCA models to gain 50% more gears and not be any quicker in 0-60 or 1/4 ET tests.
I suppose the top 3 gears could just all be highway gears with semi-useless ratios. Lexus just released a 10spd auto that apparently only uses 4 gears WOT under 100mph.
The 8 speed in the charger is perfect. It's always in powerband if you hit it. It also lets me power brake and launch from 3000 rpm as if it had a high stall converter. I really enjoy that transmission, there's no need for the autostick feature because the computer is better than me at knowing what gear to be in.
I just had a new Charger for rental. It was shockingly good. Far exceeded my expectations.
Only vehicles from them that ever terrified me was the small cars with automatics. Had a Chrysler 200 rental that felt like the transmission was going to stay at enterprise when I drove away. have driven several and every damn one of them felt like that
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