$2018 Challenge questions

I plan to enter the $2018 Challenge, but came up with several questions (after reading through rules, over and over):

Are there any changes to the NRHA requirements, due to the dragstrip re-paving? Example, battery tie-down rod diameter.

Is a kill switch only required for a relocated battery?

Is Gainesville Speedway still the primary location (other than the host hotel)?

Re: Fair Market Value, if auto parts are listed on Facebook, CL, freecycle.org, etc. as free, can the FMV be $0? I am having a hard time locating a FMV looking places like car-parts.com.

Would the following be considered "normal wear and tear items", therefore exempt?

CV joint halfshaft (FWD)

air conditioner re-charge

spark plugs

brake booster valve (I figure it is part of the "line")

My apologies if all these have already been answered.

Thanks

In reply to keithedwards :

Welcome aboard!

- You won’t be riding on the dragstrip. It will be closed, but the NHRA safety regs still apply. 

- Kill switch required only for relocated battery. 

- Gainesville Speedway still the location

- FMV ONLY applies to parts you had in inventory separate from the build  You do not have to justify your purchases with FMV.  If it was advertised as free to the general public, it’s free.

- There is no “normal wear and tear” exemption.  The ONLY parts that are budget exempt are the specific safety ones listed in the rules.

Good luck!  Look forward to seeing you there!!

Rapid fire: NHRA rules still in effect, so battery tie downs and kill switches would be answered in NHRA rules. I haven't seen kill switches be a dealbraker for someone though. Gainesville speedway as location = yes. Part is free if it is listed to the public as free. I would say those sources count.

Wear and tear is only in effect for parts that were good when you bought them but you wore them out with lots of use. ie. bought a car with a good windshield but driving to work caught a rock. you can restore the car to the 'as bought' condition.

You CANNOT use it to upgrade a car, like, this car was cheap because the CV axles were toast, then you have to include new CV axles in budget.

Edit: I thought I remembered a clause about wear and tear before but it does not seem to be there anymore. Safest is to not assume anything is budget free.

Thanks for the replies.

I based what little I "know" about normal wear and tear items from the following

Q: Can normal wear and tear items that were in good condition at the time of purchase be repaired without counting against my budget?

A: Yes, but within reason and at the staff’s discretion. I.E. if you purchase a car knowing a part will fail soon and get a discount because of it, prepare to budget that cost into the build.

from

http://www.grmchallenge.com/rules/

I would say that none of the items I replaced/repaired were known problems when I bought the car. For example, the A/C worked fine but it was worth having is checked and adding freon since we live in SW Florida.

I have documented these items in my spreadsheet, for justification. Trying to make sure I have enough room below the $2018 limit, and no surprises.

In reply to keithedwards :

I think you are stretching that. 

The example says “wear and tear items that were in good condition at the time of purchase”. 

You are reinterpreting that to mean wear and tear items that were not “known problems when you bought the car”. 

Those are not the same thing. Just because you didn’t know about the wear, doesn’t mean it didn’t exist. 

CV halfshafts do not wear out overnight. 

The car was cheap (in part) because it’s old and had a lot of broken and/or worn stuff on it. If it was perfect, it would have cost more. 

In reply to keithedwards :

I’d also note that the example you cited says it’s at the staff’s discretion. 

You are looking for assurances that you are under budget on items that fall under the staff’s discretion. They MIGHT allow it, but they might not. It’s their discretion. 

The rules don’t say you can swap out wear items. They say keep it within reason, but understand the staff has the discretion to disallow it. 

The safe answer is don’t do it. Then there is no discretion needed. But if you do it, realize it could be disallowed. 

The stuff you listed wouldn’t be covered. That’s really only for the guy whose alternator pukes on the way to the event, and in order to compete he has to spend $300 overnighting a replacement. 

Tom Suddard said:

The stuff you listed wouldn’t be covered. That’s really only for the guy whose alternator pukes on the way to the event, and in order to compete he has to spend $300 overnighting a replacement. 

From Japan?

Man, what a missed opportunity...

Damn I overnighted tie rod ends last year. I could have been even cheaper than my normal cheap self. 

One year I bought a car with non working AC and fixed the AC. I kept the AC repair out of the budget. My reasoning being that the AC did not make me a better competitor.

I competed with the AC off. The AC gave no advantage on the day of competition or judging it just made the car livable every other day. 

John Welsh said:

One year I bought a car with non working AC and fixed the AC. I kept the AC repair out of the budget. My reasoning being that the AC did not make me a better competitor.

I competed with the AC off. The AC gave no advantage on the day of competition or judging it just made the car livable every other day. 

 

You could also probably make an argument that refrigerant is a fluid...

In reply to Robbie :

You could also make an argument that the refrigerant is fuel, depending on the speed of the leak...

Us: First time car builders, long time GRM fans

The Car: 1991 Honda CRX HF, hopefully with a turbo. Target weight=2000, Target hp=200

The question: What kind of roll bar/cage, if any, do we need?

I read the SCCA solo rules, but don't know what class the CRX would fall in, so don't know if a bar/cage is required, and if so, what kind. GRM rules say that 13.49 or below in the 1/4 would need one as pictured in 4:10 of the NHRA rulebook, but I have no idea if we're gonna hit that.

Thanks guys, hope to have a build thread up this weekend.

Is it an open car?

13.49 is convertibles.  11.49 is 6 point roll bar in hardtop cars.

Nope, 91 Honda CRX hatchback-no modifications to the bodywork.

In reply to CrustyRedXpress :

You should be fine with no bar/cage then.

Tom Suddard said:

The stuff you listed wouldn’t be covered. That’s really only for the guy whose alternator pukes on the way to the event, and in order to compete he has to spend $300 overnighting a replacement. 

Thanks for your clarification. I have re-done my spreadsheet, and I am still under the limit. I was hoping to have just a little more "room" below the limit.

Okay, so maybe this is a dumb question that has been answered some where in the myriad posts and threads on the forum, but with the cancellation, errr. . . I mean substitution of the drag race for another autocross, why do we care about NHRA regulations.  Autocross is supervised by SCCA, and many NHRA rules do not apply or agree with SCCA rules.  Furthermore to quote the GRM Challenge rules page:

"Cars must meet the safety requirements of the SCCA Solo program while running the autocross, and the NHRA when running the drag strip."

No dragstrip, no NHRA.  SCCA wins this round!

But seriously I'd love to understand more about how this change is affecting things.

p.s. - Where is the thread with all the chatter about the schedule change?  I only stumbled upon it on while looking for info on the hotel and just spent a half hour looking for a thread about it but failed to find it.  I know it must be on here somewhere.

In reply to bigben :

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/news/gainesville-raceway-repaving-challenge/

With in that link you will find... 

Tom Suddard Digital Experience Director 
8/1/18 12:07 p.m.

Firm Direction:

Two autocross courses. One normal, one more open. Launch straight that will be a separate trophy, but not part of the overall scoring. 

All tech rules will remain the same, even the drag-centered ones. This is a one-year deviation, not an ongoing change.

Thanks, John. That’s correct. 

In reply to bigben :

You are asking a “Why” question. 

Sometimes we don’t know the answer to “Why” questions. 

...although, the answer is often “Because”. 

bigben said:

Okay, so maybe this is a dumb question that has been answered some where in the myriad posts and threads on the forum, but with the cancellation, errr. . . I mean substitution of the drag race for another autocross, why do we care about NHRA regulations.  Autocross is supervised by SCCA, and many NHRA rules do not apply or agree with SCCA rules.  Furthermore to quote the GRM Challenge rules page:

"Cars must meet the safety requirements of the SCCA Solo program while running the autocross, and the NHRA when running the drag strip."

No dragstrip, no NHRA.  SCCA wins this round!

But seriously I'd love to understand more about how this change is affecting things.

p.s. - Where is the thread with all the chatter about the schedule change?  I only stumbled upon it on while looking for info on the hotel and just spent a half hour looking for a thread about it but failed to find it.  I know it must be on here somewhere.

So the issue is the roll bar?

All you really need to do is say that the car isn't capable of making the target speed that requires a bar.  And since there's no way to prove that you are wrong, then you are right.

The only other significant part I've read is the required cut off switch for a relocated battery.  That's pretty cheap.  Funny side story- the NHRA inspectors questioned our lack of cut of switch on our Alfa, but for the specific car we had, it originally came with AC, which meant that the battery was relocated by the factory into the trunk.  Thus making it the stock location.  After we explained that, they were ok.

In reply to John Welsh :

Thanks. I'm all caught up now. It's nice that I no longer need to worry about finding drag slicks, but beating those darn Miatas is going to be more difficult now.

This twist actually adds some additional problem solving fun to the final months. Luckily I've been procrastinating so there's still time to adjust my strategy.