2020 Civic Si Sedan for DD?

Anyone around here have a 10th Gen Si for a DD? I've been seriously eyeballing them lately and curious how you like the 1.5T? I loved my 8th and 9th gen Si sedans I had, but those were NA VTEC car (9th gen is a stretch on the VTEC part). It seems like the GRM guys love their Coupe variant. 

Other cars I've been considering: GTI Rabbit, Accord Sport (1.5T and 2.0T) 6MT, Veloster N, and on the cheaper end a 3rd Gen Fit Sport (87 gas, decent MPGs, and super cheap/utilitarian). 

The Si is the best bang for the buck with all of the cars I'm looking at when you consider features. 4-doors, LSD, 200hp/192tq, heated seats, HDMI port exhaust tip, etc. 

I really wanted a CTR but I'm tired of dealing with the BS Honda dealers throw at you when trying to purchase one. The Veloster N would be a viable alternative to the CTR; however, the 3 door thing really irks me for some reason as does the hatch/trunk space. 

If LSD isn't a must, you should absolutely look at the Elantra Sport

+1 for the current Civic Si as a daily.

They seem to be the DD answer for a lot of folks in the Mid-Atlantic and New England areas. I see a crap-ton of them on the road. 

Skip the 2020 if you ever plan to take it to an autox, they made the final driver shorter by 4% in 2020. 

I drove the 10th gen Si at a prosolo in June when we blew up the STH Audi TT. I was immediately impressed. The car underwhelmed me on the street in the times i test drove them, but on the autox course the diff comes alive and it's just fantastic. 

also of note they require a pedal dance to disable all the nannies. 

But a BIG +1 from me for the platform, if i had not had hazmat I'd have traded my Focus ST in for a Civic Si. 

if you can find a 18 GTi with the better warranty and low miles I'd also put that as a valid option. 

the GTi and the 10th gen civic both have equal features and fit and finish quality on the interiors. 

there is a TSB going around right now related to the 1.5T motors from Honda. so I'd familiarize myself with that before buying one of the 10th gen civics.

In reply to DirtyBird222 :

The Hyundai Elantra turbo model was really impressive when I test drove it. Very GTI and Mazda 3 like. Had a bit of torque steer but really impressive for the $. Wound up in the Mazda 3 because didn't need the extra power and because of Mazda S plan pricing. I couldn't get over the styling of the Civic nor the markups that dealers around us charge 

I drove a Veloster R, which is think is better value than the N. I was reasonably impressed, if I were you, I'd give it a try too.

The LSD in the Si is a big thing in its favor.

The GTI is a nice regular car with sporting ability, but IMO it lacks a bit of fun.

Give a Fiesta ST a try. I recently picked on up, they're a lot of fun. Until recently, I somehow refused to believe the positive testimonials/reviews. You're going to be looking at the last remnants of 2019, or used. I went gently used and saved a bunch. You can run 87 if you're willing to forgo 7hp.

I was very impressed by the hatch space in the CTR, I assume the Si is the same. If you can stand looking at it, it drives and lasts like a Honda, what's not to love?

In reply to pinchvalve :

Si is sedan + coupe only...no hatch...actually the reason I didn't buy one 

The contenders in this bracket right now are basically the Civic Si, Golf/Jetta GTI/GLI, Elantra GT Sport/N-Line, and Veloster R-Spec/N. Every option has a compelling argument depending on what exactly you need. I would echo that I found the GTI to be the best candidate for exclusive DD duty. For something that would do weekend auto-x/track runs the Civic Si has a much stronger case for itself if you can live without a hatch.

GTI/GLI = cushiest/most refined, Civic SI = performance champ, Elantra Sport/GT N-Line = budget take on GLI/GTI, Veloster R-Spec/N = budget take on Civic Si/R

I have issues with sunroofs and headroom.  The Volster N has my head into the roof.  Cool car - no room.  
 

I think I'd really enjoy a Civic Si sedan for daily driving.  Great balance of comfort and sport.

I'd also have a close look at the GTI.  If one were inclined to spend the money on an ECU tune you'd find that the GTI's accelerates a lot faster than it has a right to.  The current VAG 2.0T is pretty amazing.

DirtyBird222 said:

when you consider features. 4-doors, LSD, 200hp/192tq, heated seats, HDMI port exhaust tip, etc. 

 

When I was shopping the same sector, I ended up with a '18 GTI SE (IDK what the "rabbit edition" has specifically).. It also has 4 doors, LSD (a very good one), 220hp/258tq, heated seats, and a number of very nice features. The Si is fun, but I found the GTI to be an overall more pleasant place to be (and like the more understated styling). I can do 35+mpg all day on regular (though it feels more peppy using premium) highway cruising, and my daily-driving average is over 30mpg in Washington DC traffic. My actual MPGs have been far better than the EPA estimates, and I've logged them for 15k miles now, so it's not a fluke.  The GTI 6MT is superior to the Honda's IMO (though, they are both very good). And I'm saying that as a former Accord Coupe and Integra owner. The GTI SE brakes are the best of any car I've ever owned, by far (and far superior to the Civic).  I just thought the GTI was more bang for the buck than the civic, all told. And FAR bigger selection at local dealers. The GTI gets a bit boring because it's very quiet and very good at everything. That's my only real complaint with it. 

Price-wise, they were about the same when I was looking. Plus the GTI had a better warranty (6/72k bumper to bumper for 2018 and 2019 models, but going less for 2020).  If you search, I have an extensive review of mine over its first year. 

Look at Accord Sport 2.0 manual tranny. 

Report back.  

With my aging Mazda 3 a bad weekend away from needing replacement, I have been keeping tabs on all of the current cars in the segment. I've been more than happy with my 3, but since Mazda priced a new 3 with a stick at $29K, I won't be buying another one.

The two obvious go-to choices seem to be the Civic Si and the GTI. I'm gravitating toward both of these heavily.

I'm extremely weary of anything VW, having owned one that was an absolute nightmare, but I know others that have had recent ones that have been great cars. Hondas have had a stellar reputation for years, and I've known people who loved their older Si's. My concern with them both (and any new car like this) is mostly how DIY-friendly they are.

Do either of these have issues with the valves getting dirty like earlier DI engines did? How easy is it to do simple services, like oil changes, brakes, etc? That's the stuff that I haven't seen answers for yet.

Tony Sestito said:

With my aging Mazda 3 a bad weekend away from needing replacement, I have been keeping tabs on all of the current cars in the segment. I've been more than happy with my 3, but since Mazda priced a new 3 with a stick at $29K, I won't be buying another one.

The two obvious go-to choices seem to be the Civic Si and the GTI. I'm gravitating toward both of these heavily.

I'm extremely weary of anything VW, having owned one that was an absolute nightmare, but I know others that have had recent ones that have been great cars. Hondas have had a stellar reputation for years, and I've known people who loved their older Si's. My concern with them both (and any new car like this) is mostly how DIY-friendly they are.

Do either of these have issues with the valves getting dirty like earlier DI engines did? How easy is it to do simple services, like oil changes, brakes, etc? That's the stuff that I haven't seen answers for yet.

My 2010 GTI isn't so far removed from the new ones that my experience is irrelevant. Simple services like oil and brakes are as easy as anything else. I've had the suspension apart and the subframe dropped and none of it was particularly difficult.  Engine and transmission mounts were easy. The only thing I can think of that might be annoying is anything in the cooling stack behind the bumper; if the radiator goes you have to pull the front bumper support to get it out, but these cars aren't known for killing radiators so it's not a huge concern for me.

Being direct injected the valves will have to be cleaned at some point. I had mine done at 90k miles when my intake manifold was replaced under a part specific extended warranty. The car ran and drove perfectly fine up to that point with no extra performance perceived or measured between dirty valves and clean valves.

I appreciate the anxiety with the Volkswagen brand though, some folks have managed to get their hands on some terrible cars. My experience has been pretty good though and I've only needed a few unexpected repairs over 10 years of ownership.

Dootz said:

If LSD isn't a must, you should absolutely look at the Elantra Sport

x2.

I have a 2017 Elantra Sport.  Bought it for under $18K after incentives.  NOTHING gave the performance and comfort (heated leather seats)  for the money except a FiST, which was not nearly as comfortable or spacious for 6-foot-6 me.   The Honda Sport was much more and the Si even more.

60K B to B warranty, with 100K powertrain.  That beats anybody except VW on B to B.

Kia has a Forte GT now, which is essentially the same car as the Elantra Sport, and with the new styling in 2019 I would give the nod to the Kia...or maybe the Elantra GT 5-door hatch.  

After 45K miles I would buy the Hyundai/Kia again. No question.

Tony Sestito said:

Do either of these have issues with the valves getting dirty like earlier DI engines did? How easy is it to do simple services, like oil changes, brakes, etc? That's the stuff that I haven't seen answers for yet.

Not that I've done a lot, but regular maintenance items are simple. oil filter is up top and is a drop-in style, so very easy. Drain plug isn't a threaded bolt but a (possibly plastic) one that you basically turn once around and it seals with a rubber o-ring. The oil pan is composite, not metal (which worries me a bit, but it's fairly well-protected and my car isn't lowered). Oil fil is kind of in an annoying spot toward the firewall, so you need to use a funnel to avoid a mess. Yeah, all pretty normal. But I came from a WRX, so any car seems acessible lol. 

 Brake setup is just like any other normal car so I don't foresee any difficulty with pads/etc when the time comes. Dropping the catback is easy if needed (I deleted my resonator to try to get a bit of exhaust noise, which didn't do much except save me 10lbs). Looking around at suspension, it all seems pretty basic. I mean, it's German. It's sensibly designed as far as I can tell. 

though i still get annoyed it has lug bolts vice lugs + nuts. Then again, so did my Porsche and my e30....

I just replaced my 2008 Si with a 2020 Si for a DD, both sedans.   I looked at quite a few used ones, and they either had accidents or crazy prices or accidents and crazy prices.  Then I nearly bought a 2019 when I found a dealer that was willing to deal.  But I went for the 2020 because it's got more creature comforts (adaptive cruise, lane watch, etc.,--basically self drives on the highway), LED headlights, dials and buttons back on the video screen (2019 has these, 2017-18 don't),  and a mild refresh on the outside which removed some of the bling.  I'm getting 40 MPG on the highway and 25ish in town, where the 8th gen was 30/20.  I'll be keeping this car for a long time.

10th gen Si's do seem to be dominating GS right now.  It will be interesting if the 2020's will do as well with the final drive change as it limits the car to 53MPH in 2nd gear as spacecadet mentioned.  

As a side note, I passed my 2008 to my older son and my emergency backup son just got a 2007, so we're very heavily biased toward Si's.  I think the 8th gen cars are going to be classics like MK1 GTIs.  The 10th gen is a better car, but the 8th gen are so much fun with VTEC and an 8500RPM redline.  

Having owned a Veloster R spec for almost a year, I'd go Civic Si or GTI over one most likely.  I like my warranty, but a torsen would be a gamechanger.   For DD purposes, the diff isn't so much of an issue though.

I don't know how the Veloster N and CTR compare.  While the R and the Si are sorta-close in price, the N is $9k cheaper than Type R.  I'm sure my R spec with an extra 75 hp and a LSD would be a blast.

I think the Accord Sport with the 2.0T is intriguing, but the reviews I see don't seem to like the shifter much if at all, which could be a deal breaker when coming from the amazing shifters of past Hondas (Integra, S2000, etc.).

I would say Si, and I am actually considering test driving one in the not-too-distant future. They appear to be quite tuneable as well, similar to the vee-dubs, based on what I'm seeing from Hondata.

The new final drive isn't a huge deal, it's still lower than the final drive of the previous two generations of Si. 

The Accord Sport is a huge attraction because of the 2.0T with a 6MT and the extra space. Test driving one back to back with an Si the Si shifter is so much more buttery smooth that it makes you forget it's got 50 less hp. The Si is also cheaper, has an LSD, and more of an aftermarket. 

The GTI Rabbit is the other top contender because it has everything of the SE but with the cloth plaid seats (im not a huge fan of leather). My qualms is that it's a VAG product and well their reputation. The new 6yr 72k warranty is nice; but, I'd prefer to keep myself away from dealership trips as I loathe going anywhere near them. 

FSP_ZX2 said:

I have a 2017 Elantra Sport.  Bought it for under $18K after incentives.  NOTHING gave the performance and comfort (heated leather seats)  for the money except a FiST, which was not nearly as comfortable or spacious for 6-foot-6 me.   

I'm 6'5". With no moonroof, I fit well in the FiST. The ricaro seats can be a bit tight for some. The previous owner removed the plastic bits inside the bottom seat bolsters, but the ones in the back remain intact.

All this Elantra talk, I need to look into as well.

Snrub said:

FSP_ZX2 said:

I have a 2017 Elantra Sport.  Bought it for under $18K after incentives.  NOTHING gave the performance and comfort (heated leather seats)  for the money except a FiST, which was not nearly as comfortable or spacious for 6-foot-6 me.   

I'm 6'5". With no moonroof, I fit well in the FiST. The ricaro seats can be a bit tight for some. The previous owner removed the plastic bits inside the bottom seat bolsters, but the ones in the back remain intact.

My criteria is that I need to fit comfortably and then be able to sit in the back seat "behind myself" without hating it--I have 2 sons who are both north of 6 feet.  The Elantra did this whereas the FiST did not.  The FiST is a great choice if autocross prowess is a priority over daily comfort.  The Elantra is the opposite--but can still hold it's own in an occasional HS battle among the cones.