As an SSM driver, well, things didn't get an better but they didn't get really get worse. For the people still driving true D/Street cars (read, not FoRS or CTR), ooof, rest in peace. I imagine more D/Street FRS and BRZ drivers will continue to jump ship to STX. Or at least that's the trend that I've seen locally.
Darn Miata guys keep screwing up CSP for us non-Miata guys, I see.
Well, at least I'll be consistently near the bottom on PAX again next year. 
Let's see, who has been awesome locally in PAX? FS, FSP, SM.....aaaaand they all got easier.
And what are my class choices for next year? STR is unchanged but my car is obsolete. CSP got worse and so did EM.
Fan frickin tastic. PAX is stupid
#rawtimeisrealtime
In reply to KyAllroad (Jeremy) :
What car is obsolete? S2000?
CyberEric said:In reply to KyAllroad (Jeremy) :
What car is obsolete? S2000?
He has an NC Miata. But, yeah, the S2000 is also obsolete in Street and Street Touring. STR is "ND or nothing" right now.
Gotcha.
I looked at Nats results recently and was surprised by a few new “it” cars in classes, like the Civic Si in GS for example.
And an E90 M3 in STU. I know he’s a good driver but wow. And what happened to the Vettes and Zs?
NickD said:CyberEric said:In reply to KyAllroad (Jeremy) :
What car is obsolete? S2000?
He has an NC Miata. But, yeah, the S2000 is also obsolete in Street and Street Touring. STR is "ND or nothing" right now.
And that STR seems soft to the rest of the field? 6 STR cars in the top 40 at Solo Nats. Next closest was CM and FP with 3x in top 40.
CyberEric said:Gotcha.
I looked at Nats results recently and was surprised by a few new “it” cars in classes, like the Civic Si in GS for example.
And an E90 M3 in STU. I know he’s a good driver but wow. And what happened to the Vettes and Zs?
The question to ask isn't where the cars went. But the drivers. Heitkotter went to STX and won after a few years in STU in the Z. Vettes for the most part ran off to CAM-S.
Mayfield in the E90 M3 is a properly prepped car paired with a great driver.
There are a lot of really good drivers in National Solo, but there's what I consider a truly great subset of those drivers who get paid to drive and/or have had sponsored race seats, these are the aliens.
The real test is someone like O'Gorman showing up to FP in a BSP car and showing why he's a pro driver by winning.
Great point. I sometimes get stuck on the car and forget the drivers.
Were some of the aliens missing this time?
As a total PAX newb, I'm in E street. How do I read this chart? Does the .004 in orange-y red mean it's worse for my miata or better?
_ said:As a total PAX newb, I'm in E street. How do I read this chart? Does the .004 in orange-y red mean it's worse for my miata or better?
Harder by .004
.789 is what it was in the 2019 season.
I've been getting killed in CSP, and this would have been another blow. It doesn't help my car isn't fully prepped, so the plan was to step mods back to STX status. Now that I gots dat supercharger on the way, SM it is! I did see the 86 twins are potentially going to be eligible for limited prep DSP, but doubt they would fare well with the RX8 bois.
captainawesome said:I did see the 86 twins are potentially going to be eligible for limited prep DSP, but doubt they would fare well with the RX8 bois.
There are a group of hardcore autocrossers who don't agree with that sentiment and are going to give it a go. The beauty of the limited prep SP rules is you can go run the class without permanently destroying a car cutting fenders. The twins are going to be mighty quick, a good friend of mine is going for it and I'm looking forward to watching him through the journey.
spacecadet said:captainawesome said:I did see the 86 twins are potentially going to be eligible for limited prep DSP, but doubt they would fare well with the RX8 bois.
There are a group of hardcore autocrossers who don't agree with that sentiment and are going to give it a go. The beauty of the limited prep SP rules is you can go run the class without permanently destroying a car cutting fenders. The twins are going to be mighty quick, a good friend of mine is going for it and I'm looking forward to watching him through the journey.
I hope they can do it. An e85 tune and weight are in the 86s favor, but the lack of aero is kind of a bummer. Honestly I don't think you would need to cut fenders in full SP prep anyway as they fit some meaty rubber with a little fender rolling to begin with. With that said, the chances of getting a DSP trophy over CSP with a twin is much much better. DSP is where they belong anyway.
This question is gonna sound worse than I intent it to, but, why do people care about PAX?
I'm an AVID autox'er, mulitple times a month. I've never cared about PAX. I car about winning my class first and overall RAW time second.
Patientzero said:This question is gonna sound worse than I intent it to, but, why do people care about PAX?
I'm an AVID autox'er, mulitple times a month. I've never cared about PAX. I car about winning my class first and overall RAW time second.
Pax is so guys in slow cars can think they are the best..... I've never understood it either. I've never understood most of autoX rules and classing. My dad was a former SCCA region president and probably wouldn't understand any of it today. I just do it for fun a few times a year and don't give a rip about beating anyone but myself and my tires.
Patientzero said:This question is gonna sound worse than I intent it to, but, why do people care about PAX?
I'm an AVID autox'er, mulitple times a month. I've never cared about PAX. I car about winning my class first and overall RAW time second.
I was staying away from making actual pax comments.. But here's my take
people assign a lot of value to the numbers and it seems to be worse with people who drive cars that aren't class competitive or properly prepped which makes PAX really difficult to use properly as a benchmark tool, which is the best use there is for it. Track your pax finished over time in a large and competitive region and you can get a good idea of how you're doing as a driver.
The only true of value item that comes from PAX are the 2 guitars given out at Solo Nats for Top pax each year for the tue/wed fastest and Thur/Fri fastest.
PSI uses PAX as a baseline but isn't identical and still only matters in combo classes and Bump classes.
Aside from the comparisons, it is also good for local “pro” classes as well as novice and women’s classes.
but I haven’t autocrossed in years, so it doesn’t matter to me one way or another.
I get using it for comparisons, it just doesn't make sense to base actual competition off of it.
spacecadet said:Patientzero said:This question is gonna sound worse than I intent it to, but, why do people care about PAX?
I'm an AVID autox'er, mulitple times a month. I've never cared about PAX. I car about winning my class first and overall RAW time second.
I was staying away from making actual pax comments.. But here's my take
people assign a lot of value to the numbers and it seems to be worse with people who drive cars that aren't class competitive or properly prepped which makes PAX really difficult to use properly as a benchmark tool, which is the best use there is for it. Track your pax finished over time in a large and competitive region and you can get a good idea of how you're doing as a driver.
The only true of value item that comes from PAX are the 2 guitars given out at Solo Nats for Top pax each year for the tue/wed fastest and Thur/Fri fastest.
PSI uses PAX as a baseline but isn't identical and still only matters in combo classes and Bump classes.
Which is ironic because PAX is very specifically not intended to be applied to national events, solo nats in particular. And events on concrete are supposed to get an additional modifier for street tires so likely those rewards are wrong, or at least irrelevant. The intention is to be applied to local events, since most local regions are small enough that most classes aren't very well populated, so it allows the ability for people to compete with everyone else at the event, not just the 0-5 other people in their class. For that purpose, applied over the course of a full season, it's really very accurate and useful. Why anyone cares so heavily about it at the national level is beyond me.
Patientzero said:I get using it for comparisons, it just doesn't make sense to base actual competition off of it.
Why not? It's statistically based (at least in theory). Without PAX it comes down to a wallet-swinging contest: who can afford the car that goes the fastest? Say a rich moron driving a fast car mediocrely can beat a poor alien driving a slow car perfectly. Does it make sense to base actual competition off of that?
In reply to Duke :
The problem that I see; unlike almost every other santioning body in the world, SCCA just classes cars together rather than penalize them individually. IMSA, MotoGP, NHRA, etc all treat each car differently in an effort to make all the cars in the same class competitive with each other.
You can't just group a bunch of similiar cars together and call them even. One car is going to be better than the rest given a set of rules(example: Miata, Mazda) If you have one car that dominates a class then why are the other cars in the same class?
For your example with the rich moron in the expensive car. You likely aren't in the same class so who cares if you "beat" him. He's giving you a head start and then you're talking smack after you win. Beat him in RAW time then you have something to brag about. Racing is a wallet swinging contest no matter what class or type. The sooner you figure that out, the better off you'll be.
I get spanked by an ES Toyota MR2 every month. But I'm also dishing out some hurt to $70K ZL1's so it evens out.
Patientzero said:In reply to Duke
Racing is a wallet swinging contest no matter what class or type. The sooner you figure that out, the better off you'll be.
Agreed.
Maybe too simplistic but that's def #1 and driving skill is next.
2020 PAX is out
Cue anti-PAXers.
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