Glad it’s not just me thinking that $43K plus whatever obscene markup the dealer wants to add is a lot. I get it’s an enthusiast car and all but jeepers.
Glad it’s not just me thinking that $43K plus whatever obscene markup the dealer wants to add is a lot. I get it’s an enthusiast car and all but jeepers.
Datsun310Guy said:My dealer told me $5000 over MSRP - 6/7 guys ahead of me.
Figure 2-3 years he said. Needs a $500 deposit right now.
Sheez, that's what we paid for a Jag F-Type R, out the door. Yeah I get it, apples and oranges, new vs used, but still... Peter Egan once wrote that he could either buy a new car, or two used sports cars and an airplane! Of course, when I saw him in person at a Lotus meet, he and his wife arrived in a new-looking Porsche Boxster, but never mind.
Datsun310Guy said:What he said above.
6/7 people he thinks are on the list. If I drop off my $500 I become person #8. I should see my car in 2-3 years.
However my sales guy is kind of a dick and might be saying this to get me in tonight to get my deposit.
Wait, my sales guy is kind of a dick? I might be the 20th dick to contact him today.
We had exactly that happen to us when we checking out the brand-new-at-the-time 1990 Miata. MSRP was $13K, and they were asking - no kidding - $25K, and a six-month wait. Oh, and they pressured me to get on the waiting list NOW because they were hot. I figured, meh, okay. The Very Next Day the dealer called, saying that he had "my" car and I should come right down. Dickness persists.
Just my opinion but the difference between a base Civic and a Civic Type R is bigger than the difference between a Civic Type R and something like an M2. People freak out about a Civic at this price but I think it's a lot of car for $43k and I would love to own one. Unfortunately scarcity and dealer shenanigans will make that nearly impossible for myself and many others.
In reply to ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) :
I'm with you -
Tom1200 said:aaaaaaand an inflation adjusted CRX Si would be about 23K in todays dollars.
The type R is an amazing car but for me one of the key elements of a hot hatch is a low to lowish price.
I can buy a hell of a used performance car for 43K.........again I am cheap.
The CRX isn't really a comparison. Despite being the smallest car Honda sells here, it is larger than any Prelude, and bigger than all Accords prior to 1989.
In reply to mtn :
Keep mind I wouldn't spend 43K on any car becuase, as I said, I'm cheap. I also think the current crop of hot hatches have lost the ethos of what a hot hatch is. My opinion naturally but they were supposed to be fun little cars at a reasonable price........I'm waiting for the Fit Type R or Si that will never happen.
It's also pushing the definition of what makes this hobby "grassroots." To me, that means... or meant, that one buys a used car, doesn't worry about looks so much, and makes it handle really well. We seem to be at the other end of the pool, looking at new stuff, but that's just me.
In reply to kb58 :
Your F type R, my dream car, is super grassroots lmao
Seriously though, you can a lot of cool cars between $42-50k
Too much money for a fancy Accord.
C6 Z06, 987 Cayman S, Lotus Elise... so many better choices if I had $43k burning a hole in my pocket.
In reply to mblommel :
I can't put a car seat in the back of those
mblommel said:Too much money for a fancy Accord.
C6 Z06, 987 Cayman S, Lotus Elise... so many better choices if I had $43k burning a hole in my pocket.
I'm definitely a used car guy but it's not a direct comparison IMHO. $43k for a car you have to fix vs $43k for a car that someone else fixes (and won't need a penny spent on maintenance for some time) is not the same. Also, $43k spent on one of those cars does not get you a daily driver like the Civic.
Not that I'd spend $43k on any 'normal' car myself. My daily was a $6500 XJR when I bought my 360. :)
mfennell said:mblommel said:Too much money for a fancy Accord.
C6 Z06, 987 Cayman S, Lotus Elise... so many better choices if I had $43k burning a hole in my pocket.
I'm definitely a used car guy but it's not a direct comparison IMHO. $43k for a car you have to fix vs $43k for a car that someone else fixes (and won't need a penny spent on maintenance for some time) is not the same. Also, $43k spent on one of those cars does not get you a daily driver like the Civic.
Not that I'd spend $43k on any 'normal' car myself. My daily was a $6500 XJR when I bought my 360. :)
IMHO it's the same because I'd still be spending the same money. And let's face it nobody is buying one for MSRP so it's actually MORE money. For what people are actually going to pay I can get a fun used 2 seater and buy a brand new econobox.
As far as daily driver goes why can't a C6 or Cayman DD? I can see the Elise as being marginal, but having owned one and driven it to work fairly often it was fine except for the lousy A/C in Florida.
If I had to have a back seat for kids look at Kia Stingers or Dodge Chargers. How cheap can you get a Scat Pack or Hellcat Charger nowadays?
My point is there is a world of better sporty car choices out there so it boggles my mind that people will stand in line to overpay for this ugly, bloated thing.
I used to really love Honda. I owned a couple CRXs, lusted after the original NSX, nearly signed paperwork on a new RSX Type S, loved the S2000. IMHO they are still trading on the greatness of 20 years ago.
I think Honda wanted to tone down the CTR. I really like the more mature look, but I do understand the comments that it looks like a vanilla Accord now.
So with dealer markups, the CTR will be about $20K more than the Elantra N. (Though some dealers are asking for crazy markups on the EN as well) The EN is a great track-night car right off the lot, one of the few that you can turn hot laps with no modifications. Yes, the CTR will be better, but you could also invest the $20K difference into a dedicated track car.
If you had told somebody in 1997 that a civic could cost $43k one day, they'd say you're crazy.
If you told somebody in 1997 that you could buy a civic with more than 300 hp and 265 section width tires, they'd say you're crazy and ask if you were actually referring to a Corvette.
yupididit said:In reply to kb58 :
Your F type R, my dream car, is super grassroots lmao
Seriously though, you can a lot of cool cars between $42-50k
That's my point, that "$42-50K" is apparently now considered "grassroots."
kb58 said:That's my point, that "$42-50K" is apparently now considered "grassroots."
Well..... yeah.
The guys who remember a new 1968 Mustang costing $3k probably thought it was insane and 'not grassroots' when a new V8 Mustang cost $20k in the 90's.
Not saying I love it, but that's how inflation works. At the same time, if you had told 18 year old me how much 41 year old me makes, I would have figured I'd be driving Ferrari's now. But I'm not, it's enough to support my family and drive a new Civic Type R or Mustang GT if that's what I really wanted to do. Same as the folks in the 90's. Same as folks in the 60's.
Complaining about prices is every red-blooded American's God-given right, but I will say there's a certain art and finesse to making it not sound like 'old man yells at cloud'.
In reply to mblommel :
I get the value proposition of used vs. new when you're voting with your own dollars, but it's not a valid yardstick to judge a new car by. What would be the point in building any new cars at all?
That said, you did mention a couple of other new 4-door performance options. The Charger R/T stickers at the same $43K. I've never driven a Type-R, but I spent a few days with one of those. Even with the smallest V8 it was a lot of fun, but it wasn't exactly confidence inspiring when pushed hard and no manual transmission option. I'd imagine the Stinger handles better, but no manual there either and the turbo 6 stickers a $51K. My whole point is they're probably going to attract people with different car-purchasing goals.
Now the Elantra N is a much more interesting comparison. Even if I teased Bob about the looks I think that what they've accomplished is absolutely impressive especially for the cost. I don't understand where you guys are seeing a $20K difference though since it stickers at $32K. I realize somebody here got quoted a CTR at $5K above sticker, but that's going to vary wildly by dealership. Maybe Hyundai sells the EN at sticker and all CTRs will be damned by market adjustments? I don't know, but even $11K buys a lot of tires and track days. I only wish I could get past the Elantra's looks, but I said that about the last gen Type-R so...
Mustang GT starts at $38k. If you're shopping for one you're probably not shopping for the other, but man...this seems like a lot of money.
I just got a quote for "$69,921.83 OTD" for the white in CA tax 7.25%.
In reply to thashane :
No shock there; a friend of mine with a 7 figure income has been holding of buying a new car simply becuase he refuses to pay 20-50K over msrp.
msterbeau said:Andy Neuman said:In reply to msterbeau :
Estimated wait with being number 6 in line to get one for $5000 over MSRP.
Good grief. I might need to get on a list sooner than expected if I decide to get one. That said, I'm not super interested in committing to a $5000 markup if they will be selling for MSRP in a year. I'll have to check the local dealers. Fortunately I have 5 or 6 options.
The thing is, they won't sell for MSRP in a year. I don't think the previous gen EVER sold at MSRP. There are too many fanbois willing to pay a markup to get one.
Used ones are still selling for $40k+.
In reply to Tom1200 :
pretty much MSRP plus an Si. I'll pass, I can wait. If Honda thought it was worth that much, it would be.
z31maniac said:I don't think the previous gen EVER sold at MSRP. There are too many fanbois willing to pay a markup to get one.Used ones are still selling for $40k+.
I was fortunate to get my FK8 for $36.5 out the door including dealers adds, taxes, registration, etc. MSRP for my 2019 was $37,255 with destination. So it was under MSRP. That was Valentine's Day 2020! To bad those days are gone. I'm grateful to have a Type R and still enjoy it.
The new Type R is not a $70k car. It's a really good $40k car. The mark-ups today are just sad!
I'm enjoying co-driving with my daughter. Here she is in the rain at an autocross in Bristol, TN.
At first I didn't understand the Elantra N comparisons since they had only 201hp and a 27k msrp. Then I realized there's an 1.6 N and a 2.0 N.
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