20K Volt? Why wouldn't I?

nocones wrote: I would only plug it in where I am legally permitted. If I'm honest a big part of my hesitance is the fact that nearly 12k is government money. It seems somehow wrong to take advantage of..

if it's a tax "rebate" and they are actually sending you money, then i might have a problem with it if the amount you get back is more than you pay in..

if it's a tax "credit" where they are lowering your tax liability by that amount, then i'm all for it.. anything that gives the government less money to play with is fine by me.

yeah, i know- the math says that it works out the same either way, but one way means less money is being transferred by the government than the other, which makes it ok..

Alan Cesar wrote: In reply to nocones: If you do it right, you could drive a Volt for however long it lasts and use (practically) no fuel. That's potentially much better than the ~40 mpg of a modern gas car. I don't know many people who would want to own a Focus or Elantra long enough to rack up 250K miles on one. Most people want something different after a while. Variety and all that.

My 2011 Elantra is at 150K, stay tuned should hit 250K in about 20 months

In reply to novaderrik:

6 seconds on Google would tell you it's a credit (not a rebate). Unfortunate execution for people with low income such as retired folks.

Bryce

In reply to Scott_H:

To be fair, the Leaf has no active thermal management for the battery aside from an optional heater for colder climates, which the Volt has liquid cooling and heating for the battery. Granted, the Volt's thermal management system relies on over 100 aluminum plates (see http://ae-plus.com/technology/dana-helps-the-chevrolet-volt-stay-cool for an example of one of the plates) with very narrow channels to heat/cool the cells, but if you never open the battery coolant tank that hopefully shouldn't be a problem. The Volt also only uses something like 9 kWh of the 16 kWh total capacity, so that should also help to extend the life of the battery pack.

amg_rx7 wrote: Beyond what I stated previously, the driving experience is decent. I have mostly driven sports cars (RX7s and e36 BMW) as my commuters. That is my perspective. The volt feels like a typical, not overly sporting sedan. The steering is light. Suspension is softish but well composed. Takes corners at a sporting clip reasonably well. A set of shocks and a sway bars would do a lot for making this chassis feel more sporting. The throttle input can be a little slow to match engine response to throttle pedal movement. This is noticeable when trying to make a hole in traffic - I still drive it like a sports car.

Do you drive it in Sport and Low or Normal and D? Sport really fixes teh throttle response and Low gives it more active regen/braking. I rarely use the brakes in my Volt, and always set ot to Sport when I first get in it. I also tend to drive it like a sports car and not a vanilla commuter. ;)

Chris_V wrote:

amg_rx7 wrote: Beyond what I stated previously, the driving experience is decent. I have mostly driven sports cars (RX7s and e36 BMW) as my commuters. That is my perspective. The volt feels like a typical, not overly sporting sedan. The steering is light. Suspension is softish but well composed. Takes corners at a sporting clip reasonably well. A set of shocks and a sway bars would do a lot for making this chassis feel more sporting. The throttle input can be a little slow to match engine response to throttle pedal movement. This is noticeable when trying to make a hole in traffic - I still drive it like a sports car.

Do you drive it in Sport and Low or Normal and D? Sport really fixes teh throttle response and Low gives it more active regen/braking. I rarely use the brakes in my Volt, and always set ot to Sport when I first get in it. I also tend to drive it like a sports car and not a vanilla commuter. ;)

I use Low in stop/go traffic.

I rarely use Sport as most of my 130 mile round-trip commute is highway where I'm in HOLD mode and the gas engine is charging up the battery. It is in this scenario that I usually feel the slow throttle response.

I save the full electric for stop and go and city driving.

Glad I'm not the only one that drives the Volt in a non-hybrid geek manner. :) I'm usually the only hybrid type vehicle breaking 85 passing people.

Bryce, I'm sure you've mentioned it before, but I forget. How often do you have to put fuel in the Volt? I know it depends on driving style, but curious what your experience is. One of the reasons I went with the LEAF, besides the price advantage, was that with it's range, it can cover 95% of my driving needs. So I've got a car I can use almost all the time and never need fuel, oil change, etc... If driven carefully, how far can the Volt go on plug in charge before the ICE kicks in to recharge it?

Klayfish wrote: Bryce, I'm sure you've mentioned it before, but I forget. How often do you have to put fuel in the Volt? I know it depends on driving style, but curious what your experience is. One of the reasons I went with the LEAF, besides the price advantage, was that with it's range, it can cover 95% of my driving needs. So I've got a car I can use almost all the time and never need fuel, oil change, etc... If driven carefully, how far can the Volt go on plug in charge before the ICE kicks in to recharge it?

My record is 46 miles on a single charge.

My work commute is exactly 20 miles, and i plug in to 110v at the office, so on a typical week I'm full-electric. The only time I'll get into gas is when I do a road trip.

jg

In reply to JG Pasterjak:

You're alive!

For me, I only use gasoline for long road trips, like the thanksgiving trip from Baltimore to Maine and back. Normally I just use electric for the day to day commute and errand running, even in winter with the climate control set to Eco (though I preheat the car before unplugging it in the morning to not decrease range...) my record is 60 miles on a single charge in teh summer on a day with commuting and erand running and a trip to the doctor;s in the middle of the day. No stopping to recharge even a little bit.

I drive in low all the time, even in hold mode, as it will recharge the batteries on decel so that the engine runs less and gets better fuel mileage (I got 45+ mpg on the trip to Maine and back, including a couple hours of stop and go holiday traffic where it used primarily electric power even though I never took it out of hold mode)

Klayfish wrote: Bryce, I'm sure you've mentioned it before, but I forget. How often do you have to put fuel in the Volt? I know it depends on driving style, but curious what your experience is. One of the reasons I went with the LEAF, besides the price advantage, was that with it's range, it can cover 95% of my driving needs. So I've got a car I can use almost all the time and never need fuel, oil change, etc... If driven carefully, how far can the Volt go on plug in charge before the ICE kicks in to recharge it?

I don't have any experience driving the Volt as a daily driver, I've only test driven one for a couple of hours. I'm just an internet pro.

Like you said, the duty cycle makes a HUGE impact on gas use with a vehicle like the Volt. With the Volt, most people go 35-45 miles on battery electric only (before the gas engine starts). If you always plug in and never drive more than 40 miles between charges, you only have to put fuel in about once every year. If you drive 400 miles a day, then you'll put fuel in the Volt more frequently! Like you, the reason my wife preferred the Leaf over the Volt is that with the Volt she knew on some days the Volt would require starting the gas engine, while the Leaf can easily do her daily driving on pure electric driving.

Bryce

I'm going to look at the Volt after work tomorrow. I may spend a little more than the cheapest arrest me red one to get one that is in my preffered color. The spreadsheet indicates over my use after factoring in Taxes, my KWh costs and, miscelaneous fees the Volt will have ~$500 advantage over the Sonic after 48 months at which point the Volt would be out of Warantee. At that point The Volt Walks all other cars until the point that the cars have 0 value and need replaced.

Keep in mind this is in the situation that I am trading a car worth ~21K in value so the Volt would cost $0 and the Sonic (or equivalent 40mpg $16k car) would be -$5000 which is helping it's case by adding $5000 of savings up front. Based only on operating costs the Volt wins HANDS DOWN. Basically it's going to come down to driving the Volt, running the actual numbers to get it to ensure their are no suprises and ensure I am comfortable with getting a loan for the Tax rebate portion of the purchase price. I am hesitant about long term reliability with the Volt however the early 2011's are still running strong with no issues. Surely some of those have >100k miles on them.

In reply to nocones:

Let us know how you fared. Did you get to drive it in Sport mode? Did you use Low to drive around and maximize regen (and the feeling of drop throttle decel)? Most of us leave it in Low all the time (it's not really a lower gear ratio, so it'll still do 100 mph in low, it's just a more aggressive regen setting).

The interior with the white center consoles seem a bit techno (and seems like it woudl get dirty easy), but the dark grey looks much more "regular car" like. And if you get the pebble beige leather interior, the seats and door panels get suede inserts that really make the car feel more upscale than the smooth plastic door panel inserts in the other color interiors.

Do'h, sorry Bryce. Of course, I knew you had the LEAF, but for some reason I thought you also had a Volt. Guess you aren't that much of a tree hugger.

To all the Volt folks, how does the heater work? The LEAF, except in base trim, uses a heat pump with a resistance heater as supplement. Does the Volt work similarly or can it draw heat from the ICE engine?

it's a heated coolant system. From GM-Volt.com: When the engine is OFF (as during electric only EV operation) the valve is commanded to be in engine bypass mode. This permits the electric pump to circulate coolant through the 360V heater then through the heater core in a short, efficient loop. For maximum electrical efficiency, feedback from temperature sensors in the passenger compartment and heater coolant loop are used to determine the necessary amount of electric current applied to the high voltage (360V) heating element which is an integral part of the Coolant Heater Control Module (CHCM).

After the engine starts up (in extended range mode for instance) additional engine heat will soon become available to assist the fan driven cabin heater in warming the passenger compartment.

Scott_H wrote: So, if you have a hybrid or electric car with 150k or 200k+ miles on it and it does need a battery, what would you do? What would you do if your conventional car needed an engine at that mileage? car-part.com or Ebay. I just looked for a 2004 Prius battery on Ebay and they are going for $4-800 for most. There are others priced way above that but it would be easy to get a battery without a ton of miles for $6-700 or so. The fact is there are more totaled Prius' in wrecking yards with good batteries than there are worn out or failed batteries.

Not only that, you can get "refurbished" batteries for ~$800-1500 with a warranty. And unlike the engine exploding in a conventional car, the batteries are a piece of cake to change.

Klayfish wrote: To all the Volt folks, how does the heater work? The LEAF, except in base trim, uses a heat pump with a resistance heater as supplement. Does the Volt work similarly or can it draw heat from the ICE engine?

No idea how it works behind the scenes but it seems a bit weak in actual performance. Takes a while for the interior to get warm.

So I drove it. I like it a lot. It may be my new car. When I arrived the battery was showing no charge so the entire time I drove it it was in regen mode. Performance in low was quite good. Ride was nice, handling felt confident, comfort was high with one exception. The seat hits me narrowly very high on the back between the shoulder blades. I did not have time to mess with it much to see if I could improve comfort. I will return to validate that that was an adjustment issue if it is not I will pass as it would be a nusiance. The car was roomy, both car seats fit well in the back and the hatch is very large. Interior was very high quality.

The price is real. They want 32k out the door with both the $7500 fed and 4000 state credit going to thepurchaser. They were aggressive with my trade in allowance offering what would after credits be a good chunk of $$ in mg pocket to make the switch. I am wanting to research the seat issue and need to asses my comfort with the temporary ~10k loan I would float for the car.

Grarble farble effin 4 seaters I want but can't have cause I need 5 .

If you're serious, buy before the year is over! You will appreciate getting the money back from Uncle Sam 12 months earlier.

Bryce

Chris_V wrote: it's a heated coolant system. From GM-Volt.com: When the engine is OFF (as during electric only EV operation) the valve is commanded to be in engine bypass mode. This permits the electric pump to circulate coolant through the 360V heater then through the heater core in a short, efficient loop. For maximum electrical efficiency, feedback from temperature sensors in the passenger compartment and heater coolant loop are used to determine the necessary amount of electric current applied to the high voltage (360V) heating element which is an integral part of the Coolant Heater Control Module (CHCM). After the engine starts up (in extended range mode for instance) additional engine heat will soon become available to assist the fan driven cabin heater in warming the passenger compartment.

When it's running in ICE engine off mode, how much range does the heater drain from the battery? For the LEAF, it's significant. On a warm summer day, I can do 100 miles on a charge. In the really cold winter (like 15 degrees), if I run the heater full time I'll be lucky to go 60-65 miles. If I don't run the heater, maybe 75.

The Volt for 20k is a lot of car.

The Volt would work perfect for my 30 mile round trip commute.

And if the price was right... now yunz got me thinkin'.

Klayfish wrote: When it's running in ICE engine off mode, how much range does the heater drain from the battery? For the LEAF, it's significant. On a warm summer day, I can do 100 miles on a charge. In the really cold winter (like 15 degrees), if I run the heater full time I'll be lucky to go 60-65 miles. If I don't run the heater, maybe 75.

it's about the same percentage. the trick is to preheat the car while plugged in, then go to Eco or Fan only settings with the seat heater on to drive it. MUCH less impact to the range that way. I've been doing that for my commute here in the 25 degree weather and it works fine. If it drops to under that, I may run the engine for a bit to get the heat up at some point during the commute. it uses so little fuel even doing that that a tank will last months.

nocones wrote: So I drove it. I like it a lot. It may be my new car. When I arrived the battery was showing no charge so the entire time I drove it it was in regen mode. Performance in low was quite good. Ride was nice, handling felt confident, comfort was high with one exception. The seat hits me narrowly very high on the back between the shoulder blades. I did not have time to mess with it much to see if I could improve comfort. I will return to validate that that was an adjustment issue if it is not I will pass as it would be a nusiance. The car was roomy, both car seats fit well in the back and the hatch is very large. Interior was very high quality.

Well, that sucks that the battery was depleted. I sometimes wonder about the dealerships that can't be arsed to have these cars charged for when people take test drives. When the battery is depleted and it's running on generator power, it's also down on accelerative power, as there's no boost" from the battery, and you don't get to run it in Sport mode to really feel the throttle response. It's a different car with a full battery charge.

Was that a bse seat or one of the leather ones? I don't have a problem with it with the premium seats, and took the car to Maine and back last month in comfort.