24 hrs of Lemons - more information please?

Folks,

Thanks to my recent purchase from a fellow GRM'er, I am contemplating a 24 hrs of Lemons attempt. From everything I've read about the event, both in articles and posts here, it sounds like perhaps the most fun one can have out on a race track.

As part of my contemplation, I am curious to know is what a realistic budget is for a Lemons build. I know that is a pretty open-ended question, but I would at least like to get a general picture of the potential outlay.

For the purposes of this discussion, let's assume the starting point is a running/driving car. From what I have gleaned, general car "prep" is frowned upon, while safety upgrades are required. And that extends to wheels/tires, brakes, roll cage, seat(s), harnesses, etc. It is that part of the equation that I am trying to get a handle on. I would be reluctant to spend $5k prepping a $500 car.

Please share your thoughts.

Thanks.

In reply to dyintorace:

You're not spending $5000 on a $500 car, you're spending $5000 to go have fun racing, it just happens to be in a throwaway $500 car. In the end though, you're just paying to play.

Alternatively, if you don't like spending alot of money on a $500, you could always come do the BABE rally. We just require the car be safe for the regular road, no expensive upgrades required.

GregTivo wrote: In reply to dyintorace: You're not spending $5000 on a $500 car, you're spending $5000 to go have fun racing, it just happens to be in a throwaway $500 car. In the end though, you're just paying to play. Alternatively, if you don't like spending alot of money on a $500, you could always come do the BABE rally. We just require the car be safe for the regular road, no expensive upgrades required.

Agree completely. I am not at all opposed to spending money on the car to go race. I'm just trying to get an idea of what the dollar figure might be.

GregTivo wrote: In reply to dyintorace: You're not spending $5000 on a $500 car, you're spending $5000 to go have fun racing, it just happens to be in a throwaway $500 car. In the end though, you're just paying to play. Alternatively, if you don't like spending alot of money on a $500, you could always come do the BABE rally. We just require the car be safe for the regular road, no expensive upgrades required.

I'm not even sure if safety is required, but it's encouraged. If it has legal plates and insurance, you're good to go!

16vCorey wrote:

GregTivo wrote: In reply to dyintorace: You're not spending $5000 on a $500 car, you're spending $5000 to go have fun racing, it just happens to be in a throwaway $500 car. In the end though, you're just paying to play. Alternatively, if you don't like spending alot of money on a $500, you could always come do the BABE rally. We just require the car be safe for the regular road, no expensive upgrades required.

I'm not even sure if safety is required, but it's encouraged. If it has legal plates and insurance, you're good to go!

shhh, don't make the brake nazi come and lecture us again,

We spent about $500-$600 each for a five person team to field a fun car. We did it twice, with the second being slightly cheaper.

The major cash outlays are the rollcage, the firesuits, the helmets etc.

Spend your time making the car reliable and come up with a hilarious theme. Always have fun with it, if you ever don't have a smile on your face during the whole weekend, have a friend kick you. If your engine blows up 39 seconds into the first lap, have fun trying to make it run again. If Jay crushes your car because you turned out to be terrible drivers, cheer as they destroy your creation. If you get penalized from getting rear ended, shake hands with the guy and share a beer later on. Don't quit because your power steering pump stopped working, use some muscle and laugh about it later.

Always have fun. Never frown. Don't piss or moan, EVER.

That being said, find an interesting car. You'll have way more fun if you have the only one out there.

We got lucky, and kept the car alive for a second (and a third this fall) race. Like greg said, if you have a car at the end, great! You're paying $500 to make a ton of laps at a great party over a weekend. Most people throw far more than that into a few minutes of run time aside from the car.

Another recommendation for cheapies, get a car with small wheels. Our Falkens were like $50 apiece because of the 14" wheels.

Read the rules like 50 times. Which race are you planning on entering?

-Brian

I will sell my 84 VW Rabbit to anyone who wishes to compete in the race, $500, need to put it in the classifieds, featured in this month's issue!!

I will add the following: Buy a running car if at all possible, and don't spend $500 on it, because it will need something, if you're going to be honest, that won't do.

Sorry RustyRabbit, your attractive chick in the signature cannot sway my opinion.

-Brian

tuna55 wrote: I will add the following: Buy a running car if at all possible, and don't spend $500 on it, because it will need something, if you're going to be honest, that won't do. Sorry RustyRabbit, your attractive chick in the signature cannot sway my opinion. -Brian

oh, come on! you know you want it! oh it runs like a champ. replaced all wheel bearings, new tires, rear suspension, alternator, plugs, wires, timing belt was recently done... i just ditched it to drive a more modern dd with aircon

Everything tuna55 said. I've got the spreadsheet at home with a breakdown of REALISTIC cost per person, including hotel, gas to and from the event, tires (which everyone who drove kicked in for,) gas AT the event, brake pads, stuff we had to replace, etc., etc.

Ended up being around $1k per person for EVERYTHING, including all the stuff listed above, entry fees, license, firesuit, helmet, undies, etc. If you've already got all that stuff, it takes a big chunk out. Also keep in mind that the more drivers you have, the more cost is offset.

Make sure the guys on your team know the actual cost up front, can afford it, and then throw the money in the pot...otherwise one guy gets stuck buying all the damned gas, etc., which is just kind of uncool IMO.

And if P71 is reading: I DIDN'T DRIVE THE CAR!!! ...but I hope to have enough scratch to drive in the fall event. Probably not

Realistically? Our ThunderTurd was prepped for the first LeMons at CMP for ~$3k. That was strictly car prep; no entry fees etc. We got lucky (?) because we could buy a JEG's prebent cage dirt cheap (same as a Fox body Mustang). That saved us probably ~1k over a true custom built cage. That also included all new brakes (master cylinder, hoses, wheel cylinders, shoes, pads), six new Azenis tires, six used 15x7 phone dials, race seat, harness, extinguisher, a fuel pump, water pump and other misc bits. We got the car for free and had ~$425 in stuff to make it last.

Since i took the plunge and bought a bender, I can now build my own cages.

We built our car for around $800. It wasn't even close to competitive. Total costs including hotels for the first race were around $2400. For the second race, we made about $500 off of the parts car we used to upgrade the race car, but still spent $1500 more to race again. The third time we spent about $100 on the car and brought in three guys to cover expenses. The two of us from the original group spent $200 each, but one of the hired guns hurt the car. I'm almost done with the second car and have about $1000 in it. We (I) have done all the work to both cars and scrounged up deals on everything.

Forgot to note that we bought an old dirt track car cage that had been cut in half and made it fit in the Amazon

Yup. Ours was a closeout from autopower for a 2nd gen. CRX ($350 shipped?) Kevin cut and pasted to make it fit.

Almost sounds like its best to find a cheap cage and then find a cheap car that fits the cage.

amg_rx7 wrote: Almost sounds like its best to find a cheap cage and then find a cheap car that fits the cage.

You would think... I had a caged miata tub on ebay for ~6 months with a $400 or best offer. Would have been perfect for lemons, but never even got a craiglist style lo-ball offer.

KJ

I bought a $25 cage from some dirt tracker for the first car. For the second I bought a six point kit that was just tacked into a Mustang and made the rest. Be careful, the cage rules have been tightened up. There were lots of guys welding all night in New Orleans trying to get through tech on Saturday. Our first cage would never get through tech now, but after few mods it's been grandfathered in.

This is exactly the type of response I was hoping for. Very informative fellas. Thank you.

I don't have a current helmet or a suit, so I will plan high for budget. Is a HANS-type device required?

The starting point is an '89 e30 four door. I've searched, so far unsuccessfully, for a bolt-in cage, given the popularity of the Spec e30 series. Does anyone know if someone manufactures one?

tuna55 wrote: Which race are you planning on entering?

The closest 2009 event for me would be the September event at CMP. I tentatively circled that date.

HANS is not required; a neck collar is the bare minimum. About a cage: check with the guys who race E30's, see if you can cut a cage out of a wreck. I'd suggest the Salazar guys but I think that one might be tough to fix.

I/O Port lists a roll bar/U weld cage combo. http://www.ioportracing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=60900D&Category_Code=AP900 They also have a bolt in cage but that one has a single door bar. That means welding one in.

We are going to miss the September CMP but plan to be there in April '10.

Jensenman wrote: HANS is not required; a neck collar is the bare minimum. About a cage: check with the guys who race E30's, see if you can cut a cage out of a wreck. I'd suggest the Salazar guys but I think that one might be tough to fix. We are going to miss the September CMP but plan to be there in April '10.

An ex-spec cage would be perfect! I'll put out some feelers in that world.

I'm sorry to hear you're going to miss that event. I was hoping to meet you and several of the other GRM regulars.

Any idea if Lemons has considered an event somewhere in FLA?

poopshovel wrote: I've got the spreadsheet at home with a breakdown of REALISTIC cost per person, including hotel, gas to and from the event, tires (which everyone who drove kicked in for,) gas AT the event, brake pads, stuff we had to replace, etc., etc.

Would you mind sending me the spreadsheet? That would be very helpful.

Jensenman wrote: I/O Port lists a roll bar/U weld cage combo. http://www.ioportracing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=60900D&Category_Code=AP900 They also have a bolt in cage but that one has a single door bar. That means welding one in.

That is ideal! Thanks for the link.

dyintorace wrote:

poopshovel wrote: I've got the spreadsheet at home with a breakdown of REALISTIC cost per person, including hotel, gas to and from the event, tires (which everyone who drove kicked in for,) gas AT the event, brake pads, stuff we had to replace, etc., etc.

Would you mind sending me the spreadsheet? That would be very helpful.

Sure thing. PM me your email addy. FWIW, cost wasn't as bad as I thought this year.

Careful with that E30. There is a huge backlash against them, which is ok except you have to be accepted to race. You'll need either a killer theme or a low turn out of applicants to get in. Also you're far more curse prone in an E30 or Miata than most anything else.

I turned down a Miata with a hardtop and title issues for $500 to build a 79 Fairmont wagon for our second car. I figure the typically low station wagon turnout will nearly guarantee acceptance, it'll be a lot harder to get accepted when you are one of the 15 or so E30s to apply.

btp76 wrote: Careful with that E30. There is a huge backlash against them, which is ok except you have to be accepted to race. You'll need either a killer theme or a low turn out of applicants to get in. Also you're far more curse prone in an E30 or Miata than most anything else. I turned down a Miata with a hardtop and title issues for $500 to build a 79 Fairmont wagon for our second car. I figure the typically low station wagon turnout will nearly guarantee acceptance, it'll be a lot harder to get accepted when you are one of the 15 or so E30s to apply.

Interesting. I didn't realize that the e30 was frowned upon. Not sure I understand why.

I also don't exactly get the theme thing. Why does it have to be Halloween on wheels? Can it not just be a cool-as-hell road race? While I'm excited about potentially participating, I'm not terribly excited about having to come up with a "theme". I want my theme to be "team full of cool guys looking to race on the cheap and have a good time".