SO I was reading the article on building a FRS/BRZ and it noted that spending 30-35K was good value. Now I know that I'm a cheap ass, that this is not an unrealistic sum of money and loads of people are spending this but I'm still left with "what universe do you live in?"
It was then that I had the Epiphany; it's not them that are living in a different universe.
That sounds about right, if you're going to build a full club-level wheel to wheel racecar that's competitive. It'd take about that much to rebuild my GTS2 E36 M3 from scratch. Buying someone else's car that's already built is cheaper by a good margin.
Ever look at how many new Tahoe/Suburban/Yukon/Expedition/Escalades you see on the road? Bottom-of-the-barrel Tahoe starts in the mid $50k range. I am also very cheap, and cannot fathom how so many people are okay plinking down a new ND for down payment and still paying ~$500(???) a month ($457/month on a 55k loan with 25k down, 72 month term, 3.11% interest) according an internet calculator.
Have a family member who spent good money on a new car lately - he spends 2 hours+ per day in the car, and it's an area he's willing to spend the money. House payment is "low" for him, car payment is high - and that meets his priorities. I tend to not "get it" when it comes to high car payments, but I (like you, and many here) am fully comfortable spending $0 monthly on car payments, and $x-Hundred per month on parts/tools to modify what I already have. Different priorities for where money goes each month, I know i'm probably more of a tightwad than is "normal."
Where I live 30K is about what a brand new small SUV goes for now, without the cool electronics. If you go shopping for a brand new Mustang, Camaro or Challenger 30K gets you into the cheapest ones without the V8 engines. I think a new Miata is over 30K now. The Harley and Indian Dealers have two wheeled vehicles in that price range and if you show up at a boat dealer with only 30K the salesman will point you behind the showroom building where they keep the used stuff. Dealers that specialize in vintage and classic cars offer long term financing as do car auctions.
Joe Blow with an an average credit rating can finance a $50,000 vehicle for 10 years at a stoopid interest rate and get whatever he dreams of owning.
What universe do you live in?
It’s just a reminder that “value” is always relative and it doesn’t always mean “inexpensive”
That is a pretty good value to go wheel to wheel racing with a modern sports car.
edit: Just for fun, I’d be curious to see how laptimes compare to some of the fast Lemons/Champcars.
That seems low to me but I could see someone doing it for about that not counting a consumables and spares package. Bet it can run 50% of the cost of the car to run for a full season if you are really pushing.
Then there is crapcar racing. $500 for the car. Add another $1,000 for roll cage and safety equipment. And so on...
The $30-35k quote in the article is if the car is prepared by NRG Motorsports, next half of the sentence says, "budget less if you do the work yourself." So it really depends on how much they're charging for labor.
In reply to Snowdoggie :
1k+ per event, and unless you are building the cage yourself it will be over 1k alone. Thats before getting to ensuring the $500 car will survive on track so you are not wasting the 1k spent doing the event.
Crap car racing is truly a $5k minimum if you are planning to drive more than fix. And that is just baseline running the event.
I caught that the car was professionally built / prepared but I'd bet that doing the work yourself at that level doesn't shave off that much money, so even at 20-25K I'm still in another universe.
My problem is for that amount of money I can get a competitive single seater that has way more performance. Of course many people are not comfortable in single seat race cars. So again I'm in another universe.
Naturally people who race crap cans would look at the 9K that's in the Datsun or the 5K in the F500 and go "what kind of fool would spend that kind of money for a race car"
And while I'm at it you can by a $1500 dirt bike and race competitively at the local level........what kind of tool races 4 wheels.
ztnedman1 said:In reply to Snowdoggie :
1k+ per event, and unless you are building the cage yourself it will be over 1k alone. Thats before getting to ensuring the $500 car will survive on track so you are not wasting the 1k spent doing the event.
Crap car racing is truly a $5k minimum if you are planning to drive more than fix. And that is just baseline running the event.
I have been in the pits at those events. I see a lot of people fixing and a lot of broken cars. Even the 5K cars break a lot.
Snowdoggie said:ztnedman1 said:In reply to Snowdoggie :
1k+ per event, and unless you are building the cage yourself it will be over 1k alone. Thats before getting to ensuring the $500 car will survive on track so you are not wasting the 1k spent doing the event.
Crap car racing is truly a $5k minimum if you are planning to drive more than fix. And that is just baseline running the event.
I have been in the pits at those events. I see a lot of people fixing and a lot of broken cars.
Just think how many more would be broken if they were all still on original 200k mile cooling system components and running gear.
When the Datsun was a $1800 race car it never broke, it's started breaking around the $6000 mark............faster engines cost more and get incrementally more fragile.
Racing isn't cheap! ;)
You just need to figure out what cartel those people are working for.
For years I paid for racing by being a member of the Datsun parts hoarding cartel.
In general I am all about people being able to do all the car things with less money just through determination and a willingness to learn. However, when it comes to racing, the problem really is that people without enough money just need more money. I don't see it (*CAR* racing) ever being a sport for the bottom of the income brackets.
Which is also why i have almost no tolerance for anyone with any financial privilege bitching about what people do in cars on the street. Racing cars anywhere is a bad idea as far as safety goes, and while there's a huge spectrum in which some things are way way way safer than others, it's still a line drawn in the sand of unsafe activities, and it's a line drawn with.. money.
You could spend $100 on a pair of shoes and enter a foot race. It all depends on what kind of racing you want to do.
I spent the weekend dodging cones in a parking lot. The $1500 Zoomboni in it's (very) used enclosed trailer being hauled by my 16 year old Suburban felt extremely low budget. From it's JB Tires take offs to it's crusty harness, it's all super super low budget.
And yeah, I felt like I had stepped into bizzaro land when I started talking to some of the other drivers about their rides. Cars that are taken on the Power Tour, cars with Lingerfelter motors, a Viper with 1,200 hp, just on and on. Some folks have different priorities on where to plunk down their money. I've probably spent too long on here to ever dream of paying six figures for a car, but it takes all kinds.
My road racing experience, while it lasted:
Built a spec E30 myself from a donor that cost $1100. Didn't rebuild anything in the driveline. New suspension as required, safety gear, wheels/tires and maintenance items. I had roughly $11,000 in the car when it was done. I'm a pretty savvy shopper and even had a used seat. Roll cage was a kit that my brother-in-law welded in for me.
Cost to run a weekend was about a grand. Entry fees are not cheap and some have doubled since I started. Tires don't last long. I need a good night's sleep so no camping for me. Add in meals, fuel, etc and it gets burned up pretty quickly.
My tow vehicles cost under $5000 and I used an open trailer I spent about a grand on.
I had fun for a couple years but the hefty drains on the bank account simply weren't sustainable for a no-kids guy with a mortgage making under six figures per year. Unless you make racing Priority One it's a rich man's sport. I tapped out and sold the car. I do the occasional HPDE now.
Tom1200 said:...it noted that spending 30-35K was good value...
I've spent more than that on my racecar (Mercedes 16v) and I'm consistently a back-marker. But the car is cool and fun-to-drive. It's been reliable, too.
For an honest budget of cheap car racing, I'd expect that you need at minimum $6k to make it to the first event without a real spares package, probably closer to $8k if you're one of those fancy people who have a whole set of spare tires or suspension components. And every driver will still have at least $1k of personal gear on top of that.
Spec Miata is going to be somewhere in the $10-12k range to build yourself a back-of-the-pack racer, or $7-10k to buy used. Add in spares and such and you're getting halfway to $20k, and if you want to be on the pointy end of the group, plan on going to at least $24k unless you get lucky. And that's starting with a car that has street value of $5k. If you need to pay someone else to do the work, add at least a few grand because no one wants to work for free and it'll take at least 40-50 hours to convert the car.
Now start with a car that has a value of at least 10k higher, and you're right in range. Seems correct to me.
Oh, and a funny (to those of us on the bottom rung of the autosports ladder) story:
When I was at the track two or three years ago, I was paddocked next to a guy who had a brandy-new Z06 with all of the options checked and an additional 10 or 12k worth of kit on top of it. We were chatting about a new track opening up nearby. He mentioned he got to check it out on a preview day before it was finished and he really liked it, so he was going to buy a house on the nearby lake to keep a car at for it. I was thinking about buying a tent.
Money is just a game, and your expendable income is all relative to the overall size of your pot. $20 to you is $2000 to someone else.
I bet there are folks with nearly 30k in their crap can racer.
How's that for value?
You can be competitive locally in a $3000 kart
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