323 GTX vs All Trac Celica

I've always kind of wanted a rally car but for some reason I have also always been drawn to the non subies/mitsu's available in the US

Things I know I like about the 323, its rare, its smaller, it weighs less

Things I know I like about a celica, it was a poster dream car as a kid and it looks awesome still to me (When I lived in Norway BP was in the same building and had a castrol liveried one)

I've heard the transfer cases and diffs can go on the 323s and are very hard to find parts for, can they be rebuilt or does this spell the end for these cars?

The Celica is heavier and a lot more robust. While they're rarerish here, JDM goodness is plentiful and cheap due to lack of US demand.

I seem to recall someone makes an adapter to put the Toyota transaxle into the Mazda. Gotta be an expert on here who can confirm this or correct me.

I used to really want a 323GTX for M4 Rallycross, but never did manage to get one. I thought it could be an EVO and STI killer if properly set up.

There is an adapter to put the full celica drivetrain in the 323.

You'll spend damn near as much money doing it as it would cost to just get the celica in the first place plus time.

And then you're left with a car that still isnt easy to find parts for and is inferior to the celica anyways.

Dont get me wrong i like the gtx, but it's not a fair comparison.

So then how awesome can the Celica's be I never hear much about them besides heavy

All of the old rally specials are cool as ice to me! The 323GTX, the AWD Protege, the Celica AllTrac, the Subie 2.5RS, the ur-Quattro. I want all of them! Also the AMC Spirit SX/4, the Mitsu Evo III, the Galant VR-4, and and and

In reply to Jaynen:

Heavy compared to what? I can think of only two awd turbo cars that were sold in the US that were lighter enough to bother talking about.

Power? How much do you want? The drivetrain will hold it, stock.

You can pretty much do whatever you want with one. It's all out there.

Obviously not a rally car, but this car trapped 211mph in the standing mile. Stock, original transmission, t-case, and axles. It's since put down 900awhp, with more on tap. (Now with a dogbox) http://youtu.be/clwBs9eNOf4

I like my st185. Parts will break often if the previous owners were idiots. Unless you plan on doing repairs yourself find a dedicated mr2/alltrac mechanic. Su at AGP in San Jose Ca is awesome.

i have a 1988 model Alltrac. great car. lots more potential for big power and mods. but fun in stock form Too. swapping clutches is a pretty big job, but aftermarket , and factory replacement parts are still available if youve got the cash. I f im not mistaken they made more Alltrac's then 323 GTXs

I understand your desire to build an oddball car... but really, if you only "kind of" want a rally car, you don't really want a rally car, you just want a rally-like car.

In that case, buy either one. But please don't build one to rally, you'll hate your life. You might as well do a Talon if you want something hard to work on, at least it will be semi-reliable and easy to obtain parts for.

^adding to that, I daily drive my alltrac. I can just imagine how expensive it would be to competitively race the damn car.

Yeah I would not want to actually rally the car. Normal enthusiast driving maybe, auto x, hpde, rallyx

It wouldn't be a daily driver it would be a toy

if you like the look of st165's: http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=44716

There is no comparison between the two cars. The Altrac is in a different class as the GTX. I have built and driven both. I have also just built an ST205 trans for the conversion into a GTX.

It's already been said... Not a fair comparison. The All trac wins by a huge margin.

nice st185:

http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=44734

AWD Celicas are nice, as are GTXs (I have friends who own both) but if you really want cheap AWD fun and power, find an early AWD DSM: Talon, Laser or Eclipse. There's a reason they basically owned rallying in North America before WRXs and Evos came along. While ST165s and 185s are a blast to drive, a well-sorted DSM is like being shot out of a cannon. Parts are cheap and plentiful, the cars are relatively tough, and the 4G63T engine is one of the best Mistubishi ever came up with.

Now, if you want to go the odd route, track down an Eagle 2000GTX AWD. Basically the same drivetrain as a Talon but in naturally-aspirated form, in what is basically a Mitsu Galant.

I'll just leave this here: Mazda 323 GT Turbo

RossD wrote: I'll just leave this here: Mazda 323 GT Turbo

That's FWD.

Still a cool car that i'd like to have, would love to replace the MX6 with a minty one some day, but they're impossible to find in good shape.

ALL TRAC!!

It's not that I want cheap AWD power its just I like the sleeper aspect of the 323 gtx and the small size. And I lust for the all-trac from childhood posters

The ST185s are more my preference but that ST165 is a pretty good deal

It was never sold in the states........but omg Nissan Pulsar GTi-R

failboat wrote: It was never sold in the states........but omg Nissan Pulsar GTi-R

This.

And Mazda Familia GTR.

heh... The gearbox Rallymech mentions above is in my open class awd mazda protege. What we had to do to make it fit I would not wish on anybody. I also dailydrove then rallied a GTX for some number of years. I've also driven an alltrac. The GTX is more fun, no question, but if you get one, you will either learn how to be an expert mechanic, or you won't drive it for long, it's that simple. Life with a GTX is an exercise in codependency, with many of the hassles of owning an exotic and none of the looks. Alltrac will last longer if it's been taken care of and yes for cheap awd thrills DSM is prolly the way to go. But dammit GTX is one of the lightest awd cars out there and is just so dern tossable and willing. alltrac = great gal you go out for beers with, a nice GF but you're not sure you wanna commit.. GTX=ex-gymnast/pole dancer GF with bizarre piercings and massive bipolar syndrome.. if you can find one of the very few 4wd proteges, grab it. Cuz all the 323GTR gpA homologation bits bolt right in. That's my street car and I will not sell it, omfg it's sooo much fun. See my lame cardomain page in my sig for more details if your're bored...

+1 for the Pulsar! I test drove a group N car back in the early 90s. Very nice!

Howdy Jay!