350z (HR ONLY) vs E36 M3

Alright, I'm seriously looking into grabbing a more fun/powerful daily driver. I'm really looking at these two cars in particular. This would mostly be my daily that saw an occasional autocross/track day/drift event.

I've always wanted a 350z but there have been a few board members on here that have spoken against them, saying they are no good. I think a few of you have owned them. I'd just like to know what it is you liked or hated. Bear in mind I am talking years 06-08 ONLY. The HR cars, not the DEs.

If I got the Z, I would basically be doing suspension mods and an exhaust. I guess that would be my plan with the M3 too. I'm familiar with the E36 and, generally, its pretty easy to work on. Thats the beauty of an inline engine. Never touched a Z.

So for what I want to do, which car would you prefer, and why?

Here is what I've got:

|350z pros: more powerful, way faster in straight line, cheaper parts, more reliable (?), cheaper overall, decent mpg |350z cons: heavy (I think a tad heavier than an e36), impractical (no trunk or passenger seats), has heaps of factory dialed understeer (apparently), wont retain resale as well

|M3 pros: lighter, probably handles better with less money into it, will retain value better, more practical in every way, looks (subjective :P) |M3 cons: older car, more expensive, less powerful, expensive repairs in comparison

Just for example, the best deal on an M3 I've seen all winter here is a '99 M3 with 132k miles on it for 8 grand. I can buy a prime looking 2007 350z for about $9400 with only 68,000 miles on it. Big difference there.

Yes, I did own an Avus blue M3 with cloth interior, and yes I was totally stupid to sell it.

Thanks in advance!

Depends on whether you want an M3. If you want an M3, the 350Z isn't going to do it for you.

Not sure how much this will matter to you, but check out insurance costs on the Nissan. I had some mild interest in the early 350Zs when I was car shopping a couple years ago and remember rates being on the high end of the spectrum of cars I was checking out. This was right after my E36 (328is, so a bit apples-oranges to an M3) was totaled, and I think I was quoted almost, if not fully, double what I was paying on the Bimmer for comparable coverage.

Well, you mention depreciation on the Z as a bad thing....but you're buying used and old, so its actually working in your favor. You can get a lot of speed in the Z for little cash. The entry price is low enough, depreciation shouldn't be that big of a deal. I've got a DE Z. But aside from some subtle styling differences, and the engine, the HR/DE cars are the same. Its a fun car to drive and romp on daily. Assuming you're not bringing much with you. Trunk....useless. Comfortable for tall people...as long as you're not fat, since the seats are narrow. Its a easy car to work on, if you understand Japanese cars. (way easier than German cars in my opinion) They do understeer. They have wider tires in the rear that practically ensure that. However, that can be mitigated with throttle. Or of course throwing money into the suspension and tire size/type choice.

Note that some HR powered Z's had oil consumption issues. Early DE cars (like mine) had E36 M3ty trans syncro's but never burned oil. Trans swap from a 05+ G35 sedan is cheap at about 800 bucks. Easier fix than a oil burning engine. I wouldn't discount the early DE cars personally, the HR is faster, but it isn't THAT much faster. you're talking 25hp or so. Intake/exhaust/ plenum spacer DE car with hang right with a stock HR.

Look for a track model if you can find it. LSD plus brembo brakes, rays forged wheels.

10 years age difference E36 to Z as far as a daily driver is a lot. The M3 will need a lot of maintenance to bring it up to reliable daily status. The Z, while not new, and will certainly need some work, should still have some reliability. That said, I did enjoy my buddies M3's. But it needed a whole cooling system and a huge list of other minor but irritating things. In the end, the Z is for people who have another car to actually get things done with. If this will be the only car you have access to, it would probably be best to get the BMW.

I'll defer to someone with more time behind each of the two cars, but i've driven both.

The 350Z felt pretty numb and uninspired(I think this is trend with Nissan). It was powerful. relatively quick, handled reasonably well, but it just had no passion in any form.

The E36 M3 in comparison has much more feedback and feels much more eager to please.

Just my $0.02.

Have you driven a z? Every time I did I was very underwhelmed. Fat understeering pig in stock form. Even one I autocrossed with suspension mods left me decidedly meh.

disclaimer I have owned and raced a lot of E30/E36 cars including 2 M3s. So, obviously I am biased toward the Germans.

The M3 is a sedan so infinitely more useful around town, and world class handler that still stacks up today. They are pretty stout in the reliability end of the bargain but the maintenance must be kept up with or you will ruin the expensive things. A well set up one can embarrass even some of the monster powered cars coming out today BUT as a mostly street car they have less than great interior quality going against them. The E46 330 is just as fast, just as agile with the right aftermarket choices and so much nicer to live with. Unless you need that M badge... a $7500 330 with $2000 of upgrades > $9500 M3 IMO.

The 350z is a porky sports car and a bit unloved among track junkie types but... I think they are great looking and I'm sure the understeering pigedness can be addressed like all other cars - change the suspension components and setup. Consider that expensive enough to make the lower price a wash though. It has a sweet motor for sure. Track package cars have nice big brakes. They can fit a lot of tire. I've never owned one, didn't much like driving the one I test drove... but like you, keep looking at them now that prices are way down there - lots to like at $8-9k IMO.

Also - I disagree on the "easier to work on" part. The E36 is one of the easiest cars on the planet to operate on. Just opening the hood on a 350z tells me I'm going to work harder than any 90s BMW. It might be easier than some cars (like any front driver ever made) - but not the E36.

Why all the comments about a 350 being a "pig in stock form? The OP intends to do suspension mods. I'd say the handling is easily corrected with typical autox/track setups (square setup, coilovers, front bar). A 350Z won STR (in the hands of a great driver) a couple years back. That's nothing to laugh at in a class of S2000s & Miatas, especially when limited to the same sized tires.

Working on the Z would scare me more than the M3, just because V6 vs. inline. I had a Z32 NA and doing some basic things could get quite tedious.

Huckleberry wrote: The E46 330 is just as fast, just as agile with the right aftermarket choices and so much nicer to live with. Unless you need that M badge... a $7500 330 with $2000 of upgrades > $9500 M3 IMO.

^This right here is a good answer. E46 330i ZHP sedan.

Tyler H wrote:

Huckleberry wrote: The E46 330 is just as fast, just as agile with the right aftermarket choices and so much nicer to live with. Unless you need that M badge... a $7500 330 with $2000 of upgrades > $9500 M3 IMO.

^This right here is a good answer. E46 330i ZHP sedan.

Where in the hell are you seeing $7500 ZHPs?

In reply to ProDarwin:

Nowhere. I was thinking of a regular 330i or Ci with a ground control (or similar) coilover setup and a diff swap. You can actually find the cars for closer to $7k - leaving plenty of room for refreshing stuff.

If you want to go a little slower - an E46 325i can be had for $3-4k in nice shape.

No real experience with a 350Z but I have had two E36 M3's (both Sedans) Despite getting picked on as not being real M cars and what not they both had great merit. Neither were fast but both were dependable and enjoyable. My little brother currently has another E36 M3 Sedan (auto) under the knife. I need to make a build thread for him as think I think it is an interesting build (probably not what you have in mind though. Like I said no Z experience but a big vote for the E36 M3 or better yet E46 330i.

I don't know how they compare performance-wise, but the G35 Coupe looks so much better than the Z. If 90% of the use was a DD, I'd shop Infinity.

I've driven both, and own an E36 M3:

First off--- while the 350z may be slightly faster in a straight line, the difference is small. 0-60 in about 5.3 for the Z, about 5.6 for the BMW. 1/4 mile times about 13.8 or so for the Z, about 14.1 or so for the BMW. Not a big deal.

Where the BMW wins in a big way is steering feel, and chassis communication. The BMW speaks to you, where the Z feels a bit numb. The BMW also wins big on the practicality front. The BMW is also exceptionally easy to work on--- well built components that were thoughtfully engineered for maintenance. It really is a satisfying car to wrench on. The aftermarket is huge, and expert advice abounds. Also, while the ZHP 330i is a great car, it's nowhere near as visceral as the E36 M3. The ZHP is much, much nicer inside, and probably a better daily, but it doesn't feel as "alive" as the M3 does.

The Z wins big in that it's newer, and will less likely have an interior that is falling apart. (which will be an issue on the BMW) You'll also need to keep on top of the known E36 issues--- like updating the cooling system, and making sure the suspension / strut bushings have been replaced. The Z has very good grunt. Some like the sound of the VQ, others find it crude and trashy at high RPM--Drive one for yourself and decide. The other big positive with the Nissan is the price---- the same amount of coin buys you a nicer example Z than a similarly priced M3.

I'm obviously biased towards the German. I owned a 240z and was really rooting for the 350z when it was launched. I like them, but I never warmed up to the looks. (especially those ridiculous door handles) I also found the 350z felt like it was straining for every single mph--- it always feels like it's working hard, where the M3 flows down the road like liquid. The BMW feels much more than the sum of it's parts, the Z--- less so.

Just my .02 YMMV

So I went and test drove an 07 350z. As far as the G35 comment, I dont mind the look of the Zs, but I do HATE the grey cars. Grey is the worst But Im not a fan of the grill on those Infinitis. Not a big deal tho, I'll look into them!

Anyways, right off, I could tell everything felt a bit cheaper. Clutch pedal had very little travel (not necessarily a bad thing) and felt rather vague. Gearbox had short throws but felt kind of cheap and rough. Inside was a nice place to be though, I could totally daily one.

Power wasn't as good as I was expecting. It had some zip for sure, but honestly my 95 M3 FELT faster. I'm sure this wasnt the case, although I dunno, my 95 was a bit of a crackhead. Had an endless number of issues, but was surprisingly quick, faster than most other local M3s.

Handling wise, I didnt do anything too crazy, but I do like the way it drove. Didnt seem as heavy as it was, but I'm sure a quick run through the canyon would be far more revealing.

Anyways, I am leaning more toward M3 at this point. See, I would be completely willing to fly out and buy one. I did that with my last M3. Where do you think is the best place to pick a nice one up?

Last I looked I was searching inland CA. I figure their emissions laws would mean lots of stock cars, and being as hot as it is they would probably be rust free.

Thanks for all the feedback guys, it really is very helpful!

I spent a few months searching for an e36 m3 recently. California, Texas, and FL/GA regions were yielding the best results. I have never driven a 350z but am very happy with the m3 purchase so far, although it is not a DD.

I love it!

All I can say is (I have never been in a nissan or infinity on track):

every time I get on track as a driver or passenger in an e36 m3, I can't help but think the e36 was designed solely for driving on track. Its like it has finally found its happy place right before my eyes.

ProDarwin wrote:

Tyler H wrote:

Huckleberry wrote: The E46 330 is just as fast, just as agile with the right aftermarket choices and so much nicer to live with. Unless you need that M badge... a $7500 330 with $2000 of upgrades > $9500 M3 IMO.

^This right here is a good answer. E46 330i ZHP sedan.

Where in the hell are you seeing $7500 ZHPs?

I sold my 2004 with 98k on it for $9500. Not too far off. I still don't think it quite fits the same space as the E36 M3 though.

In reply to Lof8:

Man, that thing is gorgeous!

NordicSaab wrote: I'll defer to someone with more time behind each of the two cars, but i've driven both. The 350Z felt pretty numb and uninspired(I think this is trend with Nissan). It was powerful. relatively quick, handled reasonably well, but it just had no passion in any form. The E36 M3 in comparison has much more feedback and feels much more eager to please. Just my $0.02.

This sums it up for me.

I owned my 2006 Touring for 3 months before I was tired of it.

One quick question, does it absolutely have to be a hardtop? Just wondering as the 350z's competitor from BMW(z4) can be had for within your budget constraints in even 3.0si/6sp form. Food for thought at least, and the Z4 actually has a trunk.

I would prefer it not be convertible, there is no way I would buy a ragtop 350z. Z4 is a cool car, but I would probably go S2000 before that.

As others have said if DD is the main use look for a G35. Same general speed and handling of the 350 but way nicer on the inside.

Why is the 350Z a porker at 3200-3300 lbs but the E36 M3 weight is of no concern at 3200-3300 lbs?

I enjoy my 2005 350Z track. It weighs a bit over 3200lbs the high rev DE motor makes good power and sounds good to me. Mine has upper front arms, rear camber arms and koni shocks and does not suffer from understeer. It is quite happy to hang the tail out anytime I want. It has been enthusiast owned and autoxed it's whole life and has held up well for its 90k miles. Locally I've won STU and gotten top 5 pax times the few times I've autoxed it (only had it for 9 months). As a DD visibility isn't the best but it's manageable. The steering is high effort for slow movements of the wheel but for autox type movements seems to lighten up and come alive. I have no complaints about the car. I've found its a car you really have to push to get it to come alive.

I've not owned a E36 M3 but have driven one. They are also great cars. I was not a huge fan of the steering ratio but effort and feel were good. The engine has good tractable power at all RPM. I don't know that there is a loser here.

nocones wrote: I don't know that there is a loser here.

I think this is the best answer so far. But i feel that you really liked your old one and are looking for something to replace the hole it left on your heart. But to me it sounds like an e36 m3 sized hole only another can fill. You may love the 350z or you may find its not exactly what you are looking for.

I vote m3