351 4V?

A number of the Rancheros I have seen in my price range have the 351 4V (Cleveland engine correct?). Is this motor any good or is it crap? How hard is it to find parts for it?

That is probably a Windsor, not a Cleveland. Those are rare, and the 4V heads have huge valves that are actually too big for street motors. Great for hot motors. 351 Windsor is a high deck 302, 1/2" longer stroke. Quite a few parts interchange. Good, but not great. Windsor parts are cheap and common. Clevelands, not so much.

It could be either one, depending on the year - you'll have to look at the engine to make sure. You should be able to find information on how to tell them apart online.

I saw a '70 and '71 Ranchero GT. Both said they had 351 4V motors.

93EXCivic wrote: I saw a '70 and '71 Ranchero GT. Both said they had 351 4V motors.

351 4V doesn't mean squat. Both the Cleveland and the Windsor 351's were available in 4V form. The Cleveland heads on the Windsor block is the original Boss 302. The Cleveland can be a great motor hot-rodded, but parts are pricey. The Windsor became the 5.0 and in some areas is more common/lower cost than even SBC's.

I did a little looking online and it appears that in 1971-1972 the only four barrel carb 351 offered was a Cleveland, the Windsor was two barrel only in those years. You should do more research but there are any number of Ford websites that cover this kind of stuff.

Cleveland's a decent motor now, and was a fantastic motor back then. Basically the product of what Ford had learned from all their racing programs. Really what makes it a Cleveland is the canted valve heads, which as has already been mentioned were shared with the Boss 302.

It's a 335-series motor, so shares stuffs with the 351M and 400. I don't believe parts availability is really as bad as others may have you believe.

On the Cleveland are we talking motor parts more expensive then Triumph parts or less?

93EXCivic wrote: On the Cleveland are we talking motor parts more expensive then Triumph parts or less?

I'd imagine that depends on where you're asking that question. Here in 'merica, I can't imagine British parts ever being cheaper than any doh-mestic V8, especially a V8 that's popular with the enthusiast crowd/aftermarket.

93EXCivic wrote: On the Cleveland are we talking motor parts more expensive then Triumph parts or less?

Check: www.Summitracing.com

The Cleveland parts are up there in price, like more than BB Mopar type money. They are capable of great power but at a great cost. Ford had great plans for the Cleveland, but the OPEC oil problems of the early 70s sunk that ship. Dollar for dollar, the windsor can make more power. The windsor is also lighter and takes up less space under the hood.

The prices don't look that bad to me...

One easy way to tell them apart is where the thermostat housing is. Windsors have it bolted to the intake, while Clevelands have it on the block in front of the intake.

stuart in mn wrote: I did a little looking online and it appears that in 1971-1972 the only four barrel carb 351 offered was a Cleveland, the Windsor was two barrel only in those years. You should do more research but there are any number of Ford websites that cover this kind of stuff.

While true, it's been 40+ years since those cars came out. There's no telling if the engines are original or not.

So basically I am hearing no good reason to choose one over the other.

93EXCivic wrote: So basically I am hearing no good reason to choose one over the other.

Not really. And to confuse the matter even more, you can make a Clevor that uses parts from both.

ReverendDexter wrote:

93EXCivic wrote: So basically I am hearing no good reason to choose one over the other.

Not really. And to confuse the matter even more, you can make a Clevor that uses parts from both.

I am assuming that is a Windsor block with Cleveland heads.

93EXCivic wrote:

ReverendDexter wrote: Not really. And to confuse the matter even more, you can make a Clevor that uses parts from both.

I am assuming that is a Windsor block with Cleveland heads.

Yup

Clevor requires some drilling of water passages, IIRC, but is no big deal. I also think that the valve covers are wider on the Cleveland. But, it's been a while.

I had a truck with a mildly hopped up 351C and it was awesome. I had a Bronco with a mildly hopped up 351W and it was definitely adequate. Either one is or can be a great motor. Never had any reliability problems with either one.

In reply to cwh:

4v Clevelands are actually a lot more common than 4v Windsors.

If I'm remembering right, 4v Windsors were only made for one year, 1969. (The heads used to be sought-after before the advent of good aftermarket Ford heads) 4v Clevelands were available every year possibly excepting 1973.

Also, if I'm remembering right, if you ordered a 2-barrel 351 you were likely to get a Windsor, and if you ordered a 4-barrel 351 you were likely to get a Cleveland, but they sorta threw what they had on hand in the car.

You never really knew. I had a 69 Mustang Mach 1 that had a 351 windsor. Serial number said 351 Windsor 2 bbl. It had a 4bbl on a factory iron manifold.

cwh wrote: You never really knew. I had a 69 Mustang Mach 1 that had a 351 windsor. Serial number said 351 Windsor 2 bbl. It had a 4bbl on a factory iron manifold.

back in the day it wasn't unusual for dealers to put stock 4 barrel setups on 2 barrel cars.

as far as Cleveland engines go- there were "2 barrel" heads and there were "4 barrel" heads. the "4 barrel" heads had HUGE ports on them and are pretty rare and sought after these days.. but most Clevelands came stock in trucks and large cars, so they got the "2 barrel" heads and a matching 2 barrel intake.. but aftermarket intakes have been available since these engines came out, and Ford may have sold some intakes for putting a 4 barrel carb on the 2 barrel heads..

It worked ok in this car

Aussie made Clevelands were in Falcons and from 1970 until around 1984 IIRC. I had a couple of 351 and 302 Clevelands back in the day. All GT versions were 4V 351s and were considered the better performance choice.

aussiesmg wrote: It worked ok in this car Aussie made Clevelands were in Falcons and from 1970 until around 1984 IIRC. I had a couple of 351 and 302 Clevelands back in the day. All GT versions were 4V 351s and were considered the better performance choice.

302 Cleveland? is that the same as what we called the Boss 302 in the states?