$4.00/gallon gas coming? Bring it on...

tuna55 wrote: What, you're a hippe now?

Did they give you your free box of granola when you left the dealership? Berkleying tree hugger...

Sweet! I think you're really going to like it. The more I drive mine the more I dig it. The brakes take a bit of getting used to...the transition from regen to mechanical isn't always the smoothest. Even though the car isn't fast, the instant torque is just fun to play around with.

What are you going to do for charging? Are you set up for 220V? I'm sending my EVSE out next week to be upgraded so I can charge on 220, I had the line run into my garage a few weeks ago.

I ALMOST got a leaf. Was desperately waiting for black on black and the dealer here is tinting them dark...had a set of sparco tarmacs in black picked out and ready to go... Dealer didn't live up to the "deal" part, just the "err".

I'd been patiently waiting for a drive in an E-Focus. FINALLY got one. it's SO much nicer inside than a leaf. downside is: only tan interior in cloth or leather. Ford volume dealer, with 6 days left in the month will DEAL!

I can take the crazy one step further. I traded 2006 BMW M Roadster for my Focus. Dealer PAID the M off, then dealed at 500 down and 375 a month on a Focus that stickers at 39,995. I drive 30 miles round trip, the range is like a leaf, about 77 miles. There's state tax incentive in GA I qualify for, and i'm looking into ChargePoint and Blink Network to see how the charging racket works. I use 6kWh for my commute every day. I used to use 1.5 gallons of gas. (30 miles @ 21 mpg), so i'm saving almost 5 bucks....A DAY. It kinda justifes going out to lunch now.

Why the M? I have 6 cars. 2 more are fun convertibles, not like the M fun, but in their own special way. The M was costing me money every month that wasn't getting put into it.

anyway...i'm looking at a home 220V charger, as there's a $1000 tax credit for installing one before the end of the year. They're 699 bucks + install. Right now I can get nearly a full charge just plugging into the 110v when I get home at night.

I've had it for a week, and I love it. Way more than I thought I would.

cool thread!

sjd

Charging on 110 for now. I drove it 30 miles home and then 5 to the grocery store and back and charged starting around 10pm. It was full when I woke up. It showed 90 miles range, when I got to work, 16 miles later, it shows 85 miles range. Nice. I'll get my EVSE upgraded to 220V probable, but I am not in love with paying extra or being without the charger while they do the deed.

We tried to compare the Focus, but nobody around me could get one. I called like a dozen dealers.

tuna55 wrote: Charging on 110 for now. I drove it 30 miles home and then 5 to the grocery store and back and charged starting around 10pm. It was full when I woke up. It showed 90 miles range, when I got to work, 16 miles later, it shows 85 miles range. Nice. I'll get my EVSE upgraded to 220V probable, but I am not in love with paying extra or being without the charger while they do the deed. We tried to compare the Focus, but nobody around me could get one. I called like a dozen dealers.

Yeah, I waited weeks, the volume dealer here in Atlanta rolled one off the truck from another dealer, and called me. they had 3, now they have 1...in a weekend.

sjd

Food for thought for you guys upgrading your Leaf EVSE modified for 220V and also leasing. I got a "free" EVSE installed in my garage...wasn't free at first, but in the end it worked out free with rebates and such. Obviously these deals vary wildly based on the vehicle, location, power company, etc. in your area. For me, I know I'll have other EVs...as suggested in here before, I can't imagine going back to NOT having an EV in the fleet.

So in my case, I would have got a level 2 EVSE no matter what. It adds significantly more utility to the car, especially if you have limited public infrastructure where you live. Most of them are also capable of 6.6 kW and of course will work on all future EVs. The modified Leaf EVSE is only good for 3.3 kW and you have to return it with your lease.

We got a Blink from Ecotality...but it sucks (get what you pay for? Your tax dollars hard at work?). The market for EVSEs has significantly improved over the last year and there are a ton of options in the $500 range. Yeah, it's an expensive relay, I know...but consider it the cheapest fuel station you'll ever install in your home...ever. Personally, I find it easy to invest in infrastructure.

I'm happy to hear so many GRMers are seeing the light. While the Leaf doesn't exactly get the blood boiling and it has a few quirks, for the money it's a really good car. I'm getting very close to getting a Spark EV soon (upgrading from my Think City) but unfortunately that's only available in CA and OR for the time being so most can't consider it yet.

Bryce

tuna,
The 110V has been working fine so far. My commute is 25 miles each way. I get home at 5pm and leave the next morning at 4:45am. I know they say the best thing for the battery is to either charge to 80% and stop, or if you charge to 100% you should drive it within a few hours of reaching 100%. When I come home from work, my battery is around 45-48%. I leave it plugged in overnight and it's right at 97-98% when I unplug to leave. So I probably could...and might...back down to only charging to 80%. That should leave me around 25-30% when I get home. Here's the challenge I'm finding with 110V. My oldest son plays football. Practice is at 6pm. I really want to be able to use the car to take him. However if I do that, I won't be able to plug it in until nearly 8pm. That doesn't leave enough time to charge overnight and do it all over again the next day. Plus, once winter hits, my range will go down anyway. If I go to 220, I can easily take my kids to all their practices each night and have no problems getting a full charge. I'll just set the timer to start in the middle of the night and stop 5 minutes before I leave in the morning.

Nashco, I'm going to look into the L2 charger install at my house. But for now, the EVSE upgrade is just under $300, so I'm going to do that and go from there.

Klayfish wrote: tuna, The 110V has been working fine so far. My commute is 25 miles each way. I get home at 5pm and leave the next morning at 4:45am. I know they say the best thing for the battery is to either charge to 80% and stop, or if you charge to 100% you should drive it within a few hours of reaching 100%. When I come home from work, my battery is around 45-48%. I leave it plugged in overnight and it's right at 97-98% when I unplug to leave. So I probably could...and might...back down to only charging to 80%. That should leave me around 25-30% when I get home. Here's the challenge I'm finding with 110V. My oldest son plays football. Practice is at 6pm. I really want to be able to use the car to take him. However if I do that, I won't be able to plug it in until nearly 8pm. That doesn't leave enough time to charge overnight and do it all over again the next day. Plus, once winter hits, my range will go down anyway. If I go to 220, I can easily take my kids to all their practices each night and have no problems getting a full charge. I'll just set the timer to start in the middle of the night and stop 5 minutes before I leave in the morning. Nashco, I'm going to look into the L2 charger install at my house. But for now, the EVSE upgrade is just under $300, so I'm going to do that and go from there.

The situation is nearly the same for me, but a shorter commute at 16 miles one way. I will see if I need the EVSE upgrade - the worst part is the turnaround time or the extra dough for the exchange. I am also unsure, but it looks like there is a 30% tax break for buying an EVSE.

Klayfish wrote: I know they say the best thing for the battery is to either charge to 80% and stop, or if you charge to 100% you should drive it within a few hours of reaching 100%.

You have a lease and a warranty...right? We do, and we charge to 100% so that we can get maximum utility out of the vehicle. The battery is warranted for 8 years, 100k miles, so there's no need to baby it in my opinion unless you're trying to help out the guy that will own your car in about 10 years.

To that same point, we also have the level 2 EVSE to maximize utility. Like you guys are saying, for normal commutes level 1 just about covers you. However, if the wife drives to work, goes out to lunch with some coworkers, goes to the gym on the way home, and stops at the grocery store, she might come home with 30% and plug in at 7 pm. If I found a smokin' deal on some wheels on craigslist and want to go pick them up at 9 pm, we're already good to go for a 50 mile drive (which would cost me $8 in gas if I leave the EV at home). Every time I drive the EV, I'm putting money in my pocket.

Like I said, I'm thinking long term...it takes a lot of $8 trips to earn back the initial $500-$1000 install cost. However, if you know you will have an EV forevermore, the sooner you get the level 2 the sooner you start saving. The EVSE Upgrade for the Leaf is a great option if you're still on the fence and is a low-commitment way to go, especially if you live somewhere that permanent modifications don't work (ie. rental, apartments, etc.). In vehicles with a 6.6 kW charger, the level 2 becomes an even bigger benefit (sadly, I don't have any with 6.6 kW yet, but my EVSE is capable).

For those getting the EVSE upgrade but not happy with the turnaround time, consider asking other local EV owners who have a level 2 at home if you can borrow their Nissan EVSE for a couple of weeks. mynissanleaf.com is probably the best place to ask for this type of favor if you don't already know other EV owners in your area. I have two EVs, two level 1 units, my level 2 at home, level 2 at work, and awesome public infrastructure in Portland...so loaning mine out to a local around here wouldn't be an issue at all.

I haven't had the opportunity to drive any of the Ford plug-ins yet. I've driven a lot of EVs and hybrids, but somehow those ones keep avoiding me. I need to make a point of checking them out, if only as a reference point. I'm starting to see lots of the Energi vehicles around here, but haven't noticed a Focus EV yet.

Bryce

This may be a silly question... but why is installing the 220V charger such a big deal? It's not like running a 220V line is any more involved than running a 110V line.

If/when I ever buy a BEV to replace my TDi, I'd have a 220V disconnect installed in my garage in a couple of hours. "Toss the 220V charger in the trunk. I'll hook it up when I get home... BFD.. "

Running the 220V is easy, it's the same as any oven or clothes dryer circuit is in normal homes already. In my case, I repurposed the circuit I already installed for my air compressor/welder in the garage since I now use my garage for parking cars and rent a shop for building cars. However, there's a fancy relay interface that is part of the SAE J1772 standard that controls the power between land and vehicle, the 220V routes into this. Basically, the plug that goes into your car is not live until the car and the wall-unit talk to each other and agree to what should be happening. Once they talk and everything is cool, then the huge relays close and allow 220V to your car. Then your on-board car charger converts the 220V AC into 350ish volt DC for the batteries. This is necessary for safety reasons for code/UL compliance. As a benefit, it allows some huge improvements in grid stability, charge-on-demand (for areas with reduced electric rates at certain hours), and other similar perks.

Bryce

Oh yeah, and you're right that if you're comfortable with home electrical wiring, it's not rocket science. Whether you have a $300 DIY EVSE or a $1000 fancy pants EVSE, they all attach to a wall and have a 220V power hookup like you'd use for any other home appliance. However, most people aren't comfortable with doing this themselves, or in certain states are not allowed to do so without pulling a permit if they're not a licensed electrician. If you are comfortable with hooking up the unit and using a really basic, cheap EVSE or a used EVSE from somebody else who upgraded, you can do it for only a few hundred bucks. That's the route that most of my hands-on types take.

Bryce

Hey Bryce,

In the Atlanta area, the only plug ins are leaf and Focus, and the focus stickers at nearly 40 grand. Might be some of the reason you don't see many...

sjd

Nashco wrote: You have a lease and a warranty...right? We do, and we charge to 100% so that we can get maximum utility out of the vehicle. The battery is warranted for 8 years, 100k miles, so there's no need to baby it in my opinion unless you're trying to help out the guy that will own your car in about 10 years.

True that. I keep reminding myself of that too...I have to repeat "It's not my problem...it's not my problem". I just haven't had a new car in so long and I've never leased one, so I'm getting over the baby it stage. I've been driving it in Eco mode since I got it, but today I drove home in "regular" mode. I actually got higher miles/kwh than in Eco. I get 4.6 in Eco, I got 5.0 in regular.

tuna55 wrote: - the worst part is the turnaround time or the extra dough for the exchange.

Yeah, I don't like either one of those either. However, my kids have practice 4 nights per week, plus we do errands on the weekends. So to maximize my ability to use the 15k/yr my lease allows, this is the best option. For the week I'll be without my EVSE, there's a Chevy dealer 3 miles from me that has a 220V station that I can use. I'll drop the car off and let it charge...or if the weather is nice just drive my Miata.

A week down and life is very good. I wrote this E-mail to some friends, titled "new car"

Did you say "new" car? Surely, you are using the colloquialism meaning "new to you", right?

No, actually, it's new.

What? How could you do that, I thought you were a poor single income father of four?

Well, I am. Tunawife has a part time job now, but it's not exactly putting us into a new tax bracket.

Tunawife got a new job? That's great! I thought you said this E-mail was about a car.

It was, we got off track.

We? You do realize you're typing this "conversation" by yourself, right?

Uhh, yeah. Sorry about that. So I got this new car. It's weird for me in a number of ways.

For you? So it's not Swedish, not 40 years old, perhaps even fuel injected?

Actually, it's not any of those. Not even fuel injected.

You got another car with a carburetor?

No.

What? I am confused.

It's an electric car...

Oh, you got a Tesla?

No, there are actually electric cars other than what Tesla makes. Ones that cost less than my house, too. I got a Nissan Leaf.

Oh, cool. ... So, you're a hippie now? Where should I expect peace sign stickers to start showing up? Are you going to vote for the socialist party and start ranting about the man? How are the dreadlocks coming along, there baldie?

WHOA. Stop. I'm bald, ok, I get it. I am also not a hippie. I stuck a Glock sticker in the back window just to offset the hippieness. I got it because it's cheaper than....

Dude that car is like forty thousand dollars and needs a fifteen thousand dollar battery every ten thousand miles and can only do twenty five miles per hour for ten miles before you have to recharge it for seventeen days!

Not quite. It's range is closer to 90 miles. It can go 100 mph, it takes all night to charge on the slowest charger available, and the lease is for 2 years at $243 per month and nothing down. Since it's a lease, I don't have to worry about any battery issues (although they are warrantied for 8 years), and it's actually quicker than you'd expect from 0-30 or so.

A lease? Dave Ramsey is sending troops to come and slap you as we speak.

Well, I can see that. If you do the math, the amount purchased, the amount it is likely to sell for, the amount of maintenance spent, the amount of gas purchased, for the very reliable, 5 year old (when bought) PT Cruiser, and figured out the monthly cost, it's about the same as the lease price of the new Leaf. I'll never need to work on it, and it will never need gas. It's an appliance. A cheap one.

Frickin' Obama!

Well, to be exact, the tax break that makes the lease so cheap was signed into law by that ol' socialist George W. Bush. I agree, though, and I am supposed to be a libertarian, so what am I doing taking advantage of such a silly program? Well, the government currently gives money to oil companies for various reasons. None of these make sense. Then, depending on where you live, various governments tax the gas they make differently. The oil companies can only drill where the governments say they can, and how they can, and then the price of gas doesn't really follow the price of oil, it just kind of bounces around getting higher and higher depending on which Middle Eastern country is on the news. It's not exactly like a free-market vs socialist solution here. Everything is meddled with, everything is fictitious and the market is impossible to peg. I just did what made sense financially.

So I've had it for a week now. The kids love it. It's cost me something like $1 in electricity so far as compared to the $20 I would have easily spent fueling the PT Cruiser. It's quiet, handles reasonably well, and it's modern stuff is fun to play with for an old fuddy duddy like myself. I even blueteethed the other day, or whatever the verb is.

I'll let you know if anything disastrous happens, but it seems pretty good so far. Anyone want to buy a well-maintained PT Cruiser?

steved033 wrote: There's state tax incentive in GA I qualify for, and i'm looking into ChargePoint and Blink Network to see how the charging racket works. I use 6kWh for my commute every day. I used to use 1.5 gallons of gas. (30 miles @ 21 mpg), so i'm saving almost 5 bucks....A DAY. It kinda justifes going out to lunch now...i'm looking at a home 220V charger, as there's a $1000 tax credit for installing one before the end of the year. They're 699 bucks + install.

Between my commute and the GA tax credits I'm itching to get into an EV this year - but I'm not sure my credit will allow it (just purchased another new vehicle recently, etc). Keep us informed about your experiences!

Just to add some more experiences...

I got 54 MPG in the Volt driving the 52 miles to work. Speed was mostly in the mid 70s - 80 MPH on the highway. Used about 60% of the EV charge on the way. Drive home was a little less MPG but high 40s doing the same speeds.

It's fantastic that I can switch modes on the Volt from pure EV to motor powered EV. I can press the HOLD button to save EV battery once I'm on the highway and use that for city driving off the highway.

It'll even hit 97+ MPH passing annoying berkeleys that fell asleep in the left lane driving their Camry, Accord, Corolla, Civic, Prius...

tuna55 wrote: It's quiet, handles reasonably well, and it's modern stuff is fun to play with for an old fuddy duddy like myself. I even blueteethed the other day, or whatever the verb is.

Glad you're liking the car. That's exactly how I feel about mine. The acceleration from a stop is fun, handling is on par with other small hatches. The new fangled do-hickies inside are definitely a change of pace for me too. I had never used Bluetooth before either. I set mine up and actually forgot about it. Then my wife called one day and it scared the crap out of me for a second. I nearly missed the call because I had to figure out how to answer it.

My charger is currently being upgraded, so I'm driving my Miata or my Saab which I haven't sold yet. Making me mad that I'm spending money on gas....and damn even my Saab now sounds loud to me.

I am so happy to see so many people seeing the light on this. I guess i've been on here about 4 years now and it's gratifying to see how much things have changed.

I definitely hanker for an EV but will probably wait a couple years. We are trying to get my wife a hybrid DD in the very near future, though. We're pretty much looking only at ones with over 200k miles. Im about to hit 345k in my Insight, and honestly, the Prii we're looking at are probably MUCH more reliable..

Not sure exactly what EV we'll end up getting first. But the more people buy them right now, the larger my selection of used ones will be in the next few years.

nderwater wrote:

steved033 wrote: There's state tax incentive in GA I qualify for, and i'm looking into ChargePoint and Blink Network to see how the charging racket works. I use 6kWh for my commute every day. I used to use 1.5 gallons of gas. (30 miles @ 21 mpg), so i'm saving almost 5 bucks....A DAY. It kinda justifes going out to lunch now...i'm looking at a home 220V charger, as there's a $1000 tax credit for installing one before the end of the year. They're 699 bucks + install.

Between my commute and the GA tax credits I'm itching to get into an EV this year - but I'm not sure my credit will allow it (just purchased another new vehicle recently, etc). Keep us informed about your experiences!

I've started driving more aggressively, and using the nav for the laugh... the app is neat...I can figure out where i'm going, and if I have the juice to get there...and then send it from the app to the car...SO F'IN ZOOMY!!

0-20 sucks...clearly in the programming...but once i'm cruising in traffic, and need to punch it...I don't think my BMW wagon does 30-50 faster...

sjd

I think it's funny that after having poo-pooed EV's for so long....see the internal conversation up above...these things are kinda....FUN?

...stupid hippies...

sjd

we are trying to get my wife a hybrid DD in the very near future

That didn't take long.. just bought an 07 Prius for $4500.

Vigo wrote:

we are trying to get my wife a hybrid DD in the very near future

That didn't take long.. just bought an 07 Prius for $4500.

That's a steal. How many miles?

That's a steal. How many miles?

207k. Much lower than the 277 i bought my other hybrid at (which is now at 345k).

Unfortunately my state wants to tax it on a value around 9k, but i was able to use that as a bargaining chip on the purchase price to mitigate the damage. I may try to get it appraised lower through a 3rd party if i come out ahead on costs.