Okay so here is the issue in a nutshell. We (Canton Racing Products) are looking into developing an oil pan for the new Evo X. Now, I have limited knowledge of both the older Evo 4G motor as well as the new 4B motor. The biggest difference I can recall is that the 4G is cast iron and the 4B is cast aluminum. With a little research I have also been hearing that the 4B is actually based on the Honda K series motor. Can anyone confirm or deny this information as well as verify to what extent it influenced it? (IE is the pan rail the same on both motors).
PHeller
UltraDork
10/11/12 9:27 a.m.
Will the GRM community get a discount for such information?
Dunno about your question but here's a tip, put some heatsink fins on the outside of the oil pan to aid cooling. Evo X owners are always hooking up additional engine oil and trans oil coolers, they really need all the cooling power they can get.
PHeller wrote:
Will the GRM community get a discount for such information?
We will most likely set up a group buy for the initial run and offer it up here and on a few other websites that we get information on. So yes there will most likely be a discount for the GRM subscribers.
GameboyRMH wrote:
Dunno about your question but here's a tip, put some heatsink fins on the outside of the oil pan to aid cooling. Evo X owners are always hooking up additional engine oil and trans oil coolers, they really need all the cooling power they can get.
I will be sure to mention that to our engineering team for when they start developing the pan.
ALSO if anyone has any leads on where we can get a grenaded block and a clean oil pan and pickup we are trying to source those as well to aid in the development process.
I'll tell you anything you want to hear for the cost of a SBF road race windage tray, oil pan and pump pickup!
bravenrace wrote:
I'll tell you anything you want to hear for the cost of a SBF road race windage tray, oil pan and pump pickup!
How many questions do I get? Do they have to be car related? How can I be sure they are correct?
imirk
HalfDork
10/11/12 12:20 p.m.
4g and 4b are totally different motors, the 4b is most similiar to an SR20 according to a teardown review/article I read when they were brand spanking new.
imirk wrote:
4g and 4b are totally different motors, the 4b is most similiar to an SR20 according to a teardown review/article I read when they were brand spanking new.
Good to know. We are trying to figure out how similar the pan rails are since we are finishing up development on our K series. Now it could just mean that the way it is designed uses similar elements but the block is really not all the same. We are really just trying to figure out as much about it as possible so we can avoid any unforeseen issues during the design phase.
4g63t
HalfDork
10/11/12 1:35 p.m.
In reply to CantonRacingProducts: I'm gonna be in GUILFORD tonight
The 4b was the "world engine" co-developed between Chrysler, Mitsu and Hyundai. Hyundai calls it their "Theta/Theta II". The chrysler versions came in 1.8, 2.0 and 2.4, the Hyundai in 2.0, 2.0t and 2.4L and Mitsu is used in the evo as the 4b11t and no idea what else as I don't really like Mitsu so I ignore the rest. To be honest, I don't really like Chrysler either, but I know more about them because I've dealt with them professionally for a while.
Anywho... the engine was created from the ground up. IT isn't used in anything but those 3 manufacturers and none of them share anything with Honda. Whomever told you it was a K-series was making stuff up.
4g63t wrote:
In reply to CantonRacingProducts: I'm gonna be in GUILFORD tonight
We are the next town over from Guilford. What are you going to be in Guilford for?
Bobzilla wrote:
The 4b was the "world engine" co-developed between Chrysler, Mitsu and Hyundai. Hyundai calls it their "Theta/Theta II". The chrysler versions came in 1.8, 2.0 and 2.4, the Hyundai in 2.0, 2.0t and 2.4L and Mitsu is used in the evo as the 4b11t and no idea what else as I don't really like Mitsu so I ignore the rest. To be honest, I don't really like Chrysler either, but I know more about them because I've dealt with them professionally for a while.
Anywho... the engine was created from the ground up. IT isn't used in anything but those 3 manufacturers and none of them share anything with Honda. Whomever told you it was a K-series was making stuff up.
Glad to get some more information and clear up some clowdy issues. To verify what I took from that first part. Is the 4b11t essentially the same 2.0T that Hyundai put in the new Genesis?
PHeller
UltraDork
10/11/12 2:52 p.m.
From SuperStreetMag:
"So I've heard lots of rumors that the Genesis was coming with the same 4B11 engine from the Mitsubishi Evo. Well, it's time to put all those rumors away. The turbo 4-cylinder Genesis comes with the Theta engine (G4KC), not a 4B11. Hyundai, Mitsubishi, and Chrysler joined forces to form GEMA (Global Engine Manufacturing Alliance), a shared engine manufacturer. Once the layout of the 4-cylinder engine was designed, each company tweaked with it to suit their own needs. Mitsubishi has the 4B11, Chrysler has The World Engine, and Hyundai has the Theta. So both the Theta and 4B11 come from the same group, and same bloodline, but they are two different engines. Furthermore, I talked to fabricator Gary Castillo of Design Craft Fabrication who's already begun building both the V6 and the inline four engines. Gary assured me that although the 4B11 and Theta engines are similar, they are still quite different. Think of the two engines as more like brothers than twins. Not only are the manifold bolt patterns different, the head designs are completely different. But that's not to say the Theta engine won't have the same aftermarket support that the 4B11 is getting.
Read more: http://www.superstreetonline.com/featuredvehicles/130_0907_hyundai_genesis_coupe/viewall.html#ixzz291QOyBXL"
PHeller wrote:
From SuperStreetMag:
"So I've heard lots of rumors that the Genesis was coming with the same 4B11 engine from the Mitsubishi Evo. Well, it's time to put all those rumors away. The turbo 4-cylinder Genesis comes with the Theta engine (G4KC), not a 4B11. Hyundai, Mitsubishi, and Chrysler joined forces to form GEMA (Global Engine Manufacturing Alliance), a shared engine manufacturer. Once the layout of the 4-cylinder engine was designed, each company tweaked with it to suit their own needs. Mitsubishi has the 4B11, Chrysler has The World Engine, and Hyundai has the Theta. So both the Theta and 4B11 come from the same group, and same bloodline, but they are two different engines. Furthermore, I talked to fabricator Gary Castillo of Design Craft Fabrication who's already begun building both the V6 and the inline four engines. Gary assured me that although the 4B11 and Theta engines are similar, they are still quite different. Think of the two engines as more like brothers than twins. Not only are the manifold bolt patterns different, the head designs are completely different. But that's not to say the Theta engine won't have the same aftermarket support that the 4B11 is getting.
Read more: http://www.superstreetonline.com/featuredvehicles/130_0907_hyundai_genesis_coupe/viewall.html#ixzz291QOyBXL"
Even more great information! Thanks for the help guys. I am more of a VW/Audi, BMW guy working for a mostly Domestic Company looking to help them get into the Japanese markets (interesting to see the different perspectives and thought processes), but recognize the clear markets for this stuff so I'm trying to learn as much as possible.
The world engine was made to build a similar bottom end, but each manufacturer solely designed their own heads/intake etc. for instance, the Theta in the Gen Coupe does not have a forged bottom end and cannot handle as much boost as the mitsu 4b or the mopar.
Bobzilla wrote:
The world engine was made to build a similar bottom end, but each manufacturer solely designed their own heads/intake etc. for instance, the Theta in the Gen Coupe does not have a forged bottom end and cannot handle as much boost as the mitsu 4b or the mopar.
buuuut the non turbo (maybe the turbo also) 2.0 and 2.4 does have forged rods, afaik the crank and pistons are still cast though.
from what I've heard the chrysler engine is MUCH closer related to the Hyundai engine than either are to the mitsu.
If I had something else to DD and the money I'd have my hyundai theta II out for building and boost and I'd let you know anything I found out about that=]
Just to give you an idea of how much cooling the Evo X needs for track work:
http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_articles/articletype/articleview/articleid/2108/project-evo-x-keeping-the-engine-oil-and-sst-tranny-cool.aspx
And here are a couple of articles from Turbo Magazine done by a Tomei tech. A lot of it reads like PR copy but the photos are helpful:
http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0805_turp_tomei_4b11/viewall.html
http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0806_turp_tomei_4b11_technical_report/viewall.html
RexSeven wrote:
Just to give you an idea of how much cooling the Evo X needs for track work:
http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_articles/articletype/articleview/articleid/2108/project-evo-x-keeping-the-engine-oil-and-sst-tranny-cool.aspx
Interesting article...definitely AN fitting porn. The location of the engine oil cooler would scare me. One good rumble strip hit or off-track excursion away from an oil slick? I would be tempted to put a little bend in that brace and a rub rail in front of the cooler so there would be some 'give,' if there is no better place to stick it.
Cold link to picture
