8k cash. Fix up and mod miata, buy newer car, or even newer car with payment?

Javelin wrote:

Keith wrote: I love all the "when you wad the car up..." posts. I'm not sure I want to go to your trackdays if there's that much carnage

It's very, *very* simple Keith. You don't race something you can't live without. If you are track day-ing your ONLY car and you wad it up (or blow the motor, or frag the clutch, or whatever) and you can't make it to work tomorrow, you shouldn't have been tracking it. All we are (correctly) saying is, if you depend on it, think about a back up. I don't know why that's so hard for you to understand?

Dude, that sounded really snotty.

chaparral wrote: $8000? Buy an S2000. You can't quite get a C5 Corvette for that much, and a C4 has less room to work on and more need to work on it.

Unless the OP is looking at salvage title cars, he'll have a very hard time finding an S2k out this way that's worth having. How do I know? Because I tried to find a good one between here (South of Reno) and the Bay Area last autumn. And bought a Miata instead.

Boxsters - especially the first gen ones - are cheaper out here but you definitely need to get a PPI on one. Not saying that there are a lot of dogs about, but some of the cheaper ones howl at the moon at night.

dculberson wrote:

Javelin wrote:

Keith wrote: I love all the "when you wad the car up..." posts. I'm not sure I want to go to your trackdays if there's that much carnage

It's very, *very* simple Keith. You don't race something you can't live without. If you are track day-ing your ONLY car and you wad it up (or blow the motor, or frag the clutch, or whatever) and you can't make it to work tomorrow, you shouldn't have been tracking it. All we are (correctly) saying is, if you depend on it, think about a back up. I don't know why that's so hard for you to understand?

Dude, that sounded really snotty.

Snotty, maybe. But 100% true. If I wad the Jensenator up at a hillclimb it would break my heart but at least I still have something to drive to work on Monday. A friend wadded up his Mitsubishi 3000GT during a drivers' school and that was his only car. Not a good situation.

Me, I think I'd go hunt a gas mileage car (Accord, etc) for ~$4k, finish up the 1.8 swap and then bank the remaining cash.

Curmudgeon wrote:

dculberson wrote:

Javelin wrote:

Keith wrote: I love all the "when you wad the car up..." posts. I'm not sure I want to go to your trackdays if there's that much carnage

It's very, *very* simple Keith. You don't race something you can't live without. If you are track day-ing your ONLY car and you wad it up (or blow the motor, or frag the clutch, or whatever) and you can't make it to work tomorrow, you shouldn't have been tracking it. All we are (correctly) saying is, if you depend on it, think about a back up. I don't know why that's so hard for you to understand?

Dude, that sounded really snotty.

Snotty, maybe. But 100% true. If I wad the Jensenator up at a hillclimb it would break my heart but at least I still have something to drive to work on Monday. A friend wadded up his Mitsubishi 3000GT during a drivers' school and that was his only car. Not a good situation. Me, I think I'd go hunt a gas mileage car (Accord, etc) for ~$4k, finish up the 1.8 swap and then bank the remaining cash.

I thought it was a little harsh as well especially considering the guy already said he has two other driving vehicles. It does not appear that having a second car is really a problem.

I have absolutely seen damage at events at HPDE (Ive only done about 6). I stuffed 240SX and rollover WRX. I have also seen two rollovers at Rallycrosses. As long as you keep your head around you I think the accident damage probability is pretty low. I clutch or motor is probably more likely.

Maybe I should clarify. This is the part I thought was snotty:

"It's very, very simple Keith. [..] I don't know why that's so hard for you to understand?"

The rest I (gasp!) agree with. But the attitude's not needed. People can disagree without being bitches.

I guess I look at track events differently - partly because I used to go to track events that involved a 5-hour drive to get there. I'd drive out in my Miata, drive it at the track all day and drive it home. I'd use the same pads and tires. Damaging the car somehow would have caused a major problem.

So you drive accordingly. You use mechanical empathy. You ensure the car is properly prepared. You don't take stupid chances on the track. Sure, it means you may not set the lap record or bring home the $10,000 purse for the winner at the track day, but you get to drive home.

It's very simple Use good judgement. Interestingly, that's also a good way to win races. Being the fastest guy on the track for 9 laps followed by being the guy stuffed into the wall or broken at the side of the track for 1 lap is not how you win a 10 lap race. Leading the Targa for four days is no good if a relay fails and gives you a 5 minute penalty

If I show up with a more high-strung race car on a trailer, I'm liable to be there for testing. So I'll prod it some more, and leave a little less margin for error - because that's what I need to do to find the weak points.

I'm trying to think if any of my personal cars have ever needed to be rescued from the track other than a damaged wheel caused by loaning the car to a friend. I think I did once - I recall having to leave one of my cars at the local track once to return with a trailer. I can't think of why, though. It might have been one of the shop cars when I think about it. Oh, I got it. The Mini suffered an ignition failure. The joys of old British cars.

I've seen cars damaged at track days, sure. But that usually comes from people stepping beyond their limits. I've seen cars suffer mechanical problems. Of course, I've also seen cars suffer mechanical problems just driving to the Mitty

An acquaintance of mine doesn't think that you can drive on the track without overstepping your limits. Of course, I've only seen him on the track once. And he drove off the end of the front straight within 4 laps. Waaaay off. So I'm not sure I'd take his advice.

"Wad the car up" implies a total loss. And that is well within the control of the owner. Keep your head, drive prepared, drive smart and you get to drive home.

Don't forget that you have no control over the actions of others or "things", really. You may have some sort of awesome good track luck (at everywhere but the Targa... ) Keith, but that doesn't change the fact that you have to be prepared. E36 M3 happens. Other people dump oil, tires have weird wear issues, weather can go crazy, or in my case you can get hit by a damn contractor's ladder on the way to the event.

The simple point still stands. If you can't afford to be without the vehicle, have a backup. You have like what, six backups not including shop cars? Same thing.

I'm out. //

I have six backups NOW, but that hasn't always been the case. And honestly, if you're 5 hours from home in a car you drove to the track, it doesn't matter what's back in the garage. If you broke your car, you have a problem.

Yes, you have to be ready for things to happen. Weird tire wear comes from mechanical problems. Crazy weather is when you decide it's time to pull into the pits instead of seeing how fast you can take turn 2 at Laguna with 1" of water on it - I've made that exact call in the past. Other people dumping oil, that is a definite risk but it's also part of reading the track ahead of you.

Contractor ladders...well, it wouldn't matter if you were driving to the track or driving to grandma's house in that case

For a fragile, high-strung car or a driver with a Schumacher complex, I agree you need a backup in case something goes awry. For a solid car, I think it's a risk that can be managed down to an acceptable level.

I worry more about coolant. I've seen it cause numerous incidents. One nice thing about a Miata, unless you totally mess it up (likely You would no longer be with us), there should be plenty that can be transferred to another, which can be had at a reasonable price.

I just drove an S2000, a boxter, and a Mazdaspeed Miata.

S2000. I love how that car feels. Nice Interior. Nice and tight. Stiff chassis. Nice steering. WAY better seats than the Miata. Feels nice. As expected, No guts. I think my Miata feels better to drive than that thing at lower rpms, it has more zip. If my miata chassis felt close to this, it would be...awesome.

Boxter. Feels underpowered. It's not, but it's funkey. I didn't much like the shifter. I'm going to find another one. It feels more refined, but cheap at the same time.

Mazdaspeed: Feels like my miata. Just more go. Woah! Turbo. It makes it feel faster than it is, but I would want to lose the wheels and fix the turbo. Sadly, I live in CA and have CARB to deal with, and FM's kit to fix the miata is not CARB leagal. The salesmen that road with me was surprised at that little car ;) "It's a TURBO. Woahhh" he sais.

The FM parts to fix the MSM are all either invisible when installed or easy to retrofit. Just FYI.

The S2000 was Mazda's target with the MSM, actually. And if you like the feel of the S2000's chassis but you want more torque, have a look at an NC Miata. They all need a suspension upgrade, but they're in the $9k range now. It's got a very solid chassis, much more so than the previous models.

Mysticle31 wrote: S2000. I love how that car feels. Nice Interior. Nice and tight. Stiff chassis. Nice steering. WAY better seats than the Miata. Feels nice. As expected, No guts. I think my Miata feels better to drive than that thing at lower rpms, it has more zip. If my miata chassis felt close to this, it would be...awesome.

Which one did you drive? AP1 or AP2? The AP2s with the lower redline and 2.2L engine feel more perky at lower rpms.

Mysticle31 wrote: Boxter. Feels underpowered. It's not, but it's funkey. I didn't much like the shifter. I'm going to find another one. It feels more refined, but cheap at the same time.

Check out a Boxster S - they're a little more expensive but the bigger engine makes a big difference.

Go with a used E36 M3 but take your time finding the right one. Just drive your Miata and enjoy it the way it is for now. It sounds like a nice fun car already.

I've driven many BMWs. Love em. I'm going to find another one to drive with the other cars fresh in my mind.

I already have a full FM butterfly for my miata (not installed on this one, it's in the garage) and may get some door bars and a cannon rear brace. That plus the roll bar will stiffen up the Miata nicely.

Not any one clear cut direction to go.

I did a quick search for NCs and they are all out of my price range, just like the S2K I drove. If I wated for some, Im sure I would find one. I will go drive an NC tomorrow though!

I think the S2K was a AP2. It was a 2007. I remember I drove a 2002, and it was way worse, and I couldn't see the tach. I'm smaller at 5'4, so the Miata cockpit actually fits me better than the S2K. I cant rest my elbow on the top of the door panel.

Mysticle31 wrote: I just drove an S2000, a boxter, and a Mazdaspeed Miata. S2000. I love how that car feels. Nice Interior. Nice and tight. Stiff chassis. Nice steering. WAY better seats than the Miata. Feels nice. As expected, No guts. I think my Miata feels better to drive than that thing at lower rpms, it has more zip. If my miata chassis felt close to this, it would be...awesome. Boxter. Feels underpowered. It's not, but it's funkey. I didn't much like the shifter. I'm going to find another one. It feels more refined, but cheap at the same time. Mazdaspeed: Feels like my miata. Just more go. Woah! Turbo. It makes it feel faster than it is, but I would want to lose the wheels and fix the turbo. Sadly, I live in CA and have CARB to deal with, and FM's kit to fix the miata is not CARB leagal. The salesmen that road with me was surprised at that little car ;) "It's a TURBO. Woahhh" he sais.

The S2000 feeling slower than a miata in the lower RPMs is simply because it comes on so hard when it gets on the cam up top. Barring an MSM, an S2000 is faster and more powerful EVERYWHERE than a Miata.

Today, I drove a 3rd gen 2001 (I think) MR2, a z3, another boxster, a 350z, and an RX8. Yes, some of these are out of my price range, but I drove them anyway.

MR2. I expected more out of this car. It's the same size as the NB, its a little faster than many Miatas Iv'e driven. It's also a wonderfly uninspired drive. I prefer Miatas. I will give it this, it is very unique looking. It's like a baby Boxster or Ferrari or something.

Z3. I like this car. It's not like the S2000, and it's not like the Miata. It's more like a Miata and a Cadillac made babies. It's a cruiser. It's not super tossable, but it's fun. It has heavier more solid feeling, especially the doors. It has a nice interior, nice engine when reved. It's a mini 3 series. Long hood.

Boxster. I think these drive funny. I'm not a fan of the shifter. It was a nice car, nicer than the other Boxster I drove, but there is just something about it that makes it odd. It's like it's refined, but cheap. I cant put my finger on this one. I do like the seats it had!

RX8. I've always wanted to drive a rotary. It feels long. Unlike the other cars, it has a back seat, which I dont care about. Similar to the S2000, you have to really rev that sucker up. I think that the S2000 I drove actually had more torque. Cool car. I probably would not own one. I'm a bit scared to work on a rotary, I've heard bad things. Oh yeah, this one one of the ones out of my price range.

350z. Too big. Too big. I prefer the smaller cars. I cant rest my elbow on the window sill like I can in the other cars. I dont like the rearward visablity. Powerful car though. I like that engine. The other cars handle much better I think.

Thoughts?

One thing I'm learning, is how good the Miata really is. Is it an S2000, no. Does it have lots of power, no. Can I fix that last one? Yes. Is it fun. Yes. Would I be putting a ton of money in a $2000 car. Yes. Is that a mistake considering I can buy an E36 M3 (I haven't driven one of these recently), Z3, or mayyyybe an S2K for similar prices? Probably not. Especially because I would have every major maintenance item done, and I have tons of parts in the garage should they be needed.

As to insurance payouts, should they be needed, I am thinking of it this way. My Miata has been around for 20 years, there is no need to think that it will be taken out in the next 1, 2, 3, 4 years. It could happen though. If I add up all the accidents I've had in my 15 years of driving, I have never completely wadded up a car. I was rear ended once, and drove the car home. I caused a head on when I was 16. I could have pulled that motor out and used it in another Sentra. If I wrecked my Miata, I'd prey I didn't damage the engine, supercharger, suspension, torsen diff, or wheels. I could move those to another Miata.

Would it be nice to have a higher value car that could be insured to the point where if it got wrecked, I say "oh well" and find another one? Yes. Am I going to worry about it, I dont think so.

At the track, I've seen some wrecks. I've never wrecked. I've spun out, lots. I dont push my car THAT hard. I like to keep it within 75-85%. If I had a track car I could afford to lose, sure I'd drive it at 110%. That would be good practice and good fun. ha ha. I keep my cars in good mechanical shape.

Thoughts?

My experience tells me your driving abilities or record have absolutely zero to do with the potential of your car getting wiped out on the road or track. With all the unlicensed, DUI, texting idiots that populate the roads it is a very real risk you can lose any car at any time.

Mysticle31 wrote: One thing I'm learning, is how good the Miata really is. Is it an S2000, no. Does it have lots of power, no. Can I fix that last one? Yes. Is it fun. Yes. Would I be putting a ton of money in a $2000 car. Yes. Is that a mistake considering I can buy an E36 M3 (I haven't driven one of these recently), Z3, or mayyyybe an S2K for similar prices? Probably not. Especially because I would have every major maintenance item done, and I have tons of parts in the garage should they be needed. At the track, I've seen some wrecks. I've never wrecked. I've spun out, lots. I dont push my car THAT hard. I like to keep it within 75-85%. If I had a track car I could afford to lose, sure I'd drive it at 110%. That would be good practice and good fun. ha ha. I keep my cars in good mechanical shape. Thoughts?

I like your assessments of the competition, but you might want to try an M3 before sealing any deals.

The fact that you've "spun out, lots" on the track means you're driving at 110% by definition. All you need is to get upside down, once, to find the limits of the Miata. Those limits are the A pillars and they will abandon you when you need them most. I'd say Miata, Miata all day long if I knew you were 5' 6" and had a good roll bar in there. If you're around 6' and decide to go Miata you really should consider a cage.

8k cash? I'm pretty sure I'd do something really stupid like alfa GTV-6. How about a 2nd gen MR2 turbo? The '01 you drove is not even worthy of that badge.

In reply to wrek496: Hey now, having owned both the 2nd Gen mr2 and currently owning a 3rd Gen I can tell you that is a harsh statement from someone who probably hasn't driven a 3rd Gen. My 01 is WAY more fun to drive in the corners than my 93 ever was. Much better chassis. To the OP I would recommend finding a 3rd Gen mr2 with a little suspension work and maybe a corky breast plate to drive. Really helps over the too soft stock units. Also, it is 400 plus lbs lighter than a 2nd Gen NA car which is a bit lighter than a Turbo.

Yeah, maybe with some work I would have liked the MR2.

"The fact that you've "spun out, lots" on the track means you're driving at 110% by definition. All you need is to get upside down, once, to find the limits of the Miata. Those limits are the A pillars and they will abandon you when you need them most. I'd say Miata, Miata all day long if I knew you were 5' 6" and had a good roll bar in there. If you're around 6' and decide to go Miata you really should consider a cage."

I'm shorter than 5'6 and have a rollbar :). I dont want to wear a helmet on the street, so no cage.

Alot of my spinouts were me being stupid and getting on the brakes, or too much throttle. The throttle problem really hasn't been a problem in the Miata though. I'm not the greatest, but I've figured it out by now, I think.