987 Cayman, S vs. Non-S

Oh and 987's needs a few mods before tracking it. 

mazdeuce - Seth said:

I don't  think the 987.2 cars are in quite the sweet spot that the .1 cars are. Honestly, I'm half tempted to find a salvage title non-S car just so I can rallycross it without feeling too bad about it. 

This sounds awesome.

I had a 987S for five years. Mine was a six speed with PASM. It came with the optional short shifter from the factory. I loved the car to death, but I did think that it was a little high strung in stop and go traffic and around town. With the six speed/short shifter combo it can be a little tricky. There's a lot of gears competing for space in a relatively small area.

It's a funny thing. I've owned three speed manuals that needed a fourth gear, four speeds that needed a fifth, and five speeds that needed a sixth. This car never made me long for a seventh gear. In fact, it probably would have been fine with five. However, a PCA Tech Chair who owns a local race shop told me that the six speed transmission is much stronger than the five. It's not just the same box with an extra gear.

I was originally looking for a non-S car but then the right deal came along on the S. I think I could have been perfectly happy with a non-S. If the S didn't exist, everyone would still be in love with the non-S cars.

I've been driving cars with manual transmissions since I was 15, but after a few weekends driving PDK cars, I had to have one. It's not something that you immediately fall in love with, but after a couple of days you'll realize that there's absolutely no reason for your left foot to be involved in shifting.

Last year, I got rid of the 987S and bought a 981 (non-S) with the PDK. I absolutely love the new car. It's better in every way, and even with a little less horsepower and without the big red brakes, I'm sure that I'd be quicker around any autocross course in the new car.

The only thing that I miss about the old car is the PASM. That's a really nice option to have. You can switch from street suspension to track suspension mid corner with the press of a button.

I always said I would only ever get a Boxster S, not a base Boxster. But then an unbelievable deal on a clean 2004 Base Boxster came up and I bought it. It was the best car and we enjoyed it for years. Hundreds of track day laps and autocrossing, I came in 4th in CS at Nationals and my wife missed winning CSL by .001 seconds over 2 days in that car. It was magnificent and got 36 mpg to boot. There are great deals to be had on Caymans and you'll have a great time in one, unless you have a friend with an S who lets you drive it all the time. Actually, that's not true, I have friends with GT3RS and Turbos who let me thrash their car on the track and I never got back in my Boxster and felt let down.

Several locals have had catastrophic failures in their 996/Caymans on track.  Even after doing the IMS/RMS/Motorsport AOS.  Like KABOOM failures. 

I love the Caymans and I think they're wonderful street cars but I wouldn't take one on track...

About 1.5 years ago I test drove a base 2011 Cayman with the sport chrono package.  It was incredible.  Comfortable and precise, and I couldn't feel the mass.  The base model wasn't lacking for power.  If the dealer hadn't been asking $26k and the mileage had been lower, I would have bought it.  After speaking with some Porsche owners, I was convinced to look for an S instead.  Those were much harder to find (at least the 2009-2011 models) and quite a bit more in cost.  But I couldn't get over the "better in every way" that everyone said of the S.

Someday I'll own a Cayman.

Jah29 said:

I have owned a 987.2 S, 987.2 R, and currently a 981 GTS.

Can we be friends? lol, goals.

docwyte said:

Several locals have had catastrophic failures in their 996/Caymans on track.  Even after doing the IMS/RMS/Motorsport AOS.  Like KABOOM failures. 

 

I love the Caymans and I think they're wonderful street cars but I wouldn't take one on track...

For the Cayman I'm pretty sure you have to do an oil pickup modification You can google it. It's not an expensive modification though. I know people (mostly vision motorsports) who track both a lot and dont have issues with stock 996's and slightly modded Caymans. But, I think any car no matter make or model can have catastrophic failures on the track. I've seen it happen with Vettes, M cars, and Miatas as well. 

They had the modified oil pans, etc.  I also know a bunch of people who've tracked them without issue.  However I've seen far more catastrophic 996/Cayman engine failures at the track compared to M3's, corvette's, etc...

In reply to loosecannon :

Thanks for that insight. The truth is that I'd probably be happy wth the base car. The beauty and handling come out either way. It may just be a matter of deal hunting and finding the right car, no matter which one it is. 

As far as oiling mods for tracking, I was aware that there were a few things that needed to be addressed, especially if sticky tires were used. I'm ok with that. 

II strongly believe that on-track, oil related engine failures in most cars are directly proportional to the stickiness of your tires. Make conservative (less cool) tire choices and you will help preserve your engine and have fun at more track days.

I think that the 2.9 liter 2009+ cars (what's that - a 987.2 non-S?) are kind of a sweet spot.   A little more power than the earlier 2.7, but without the Sword of Damocles IMS thing to worry about.   Plus it loses the unremarkable 5-speed of the earlier non-S in favor of a 6-speed.   

SEADave said:

I think that the 2.9 liter 2009+ cars (what's that - a 987.2 non-S?) are kind of a sweet spot.   A little more power than the earlier 2.7, but without the Sword of Damocles IMS thing to worry about.   Plus it loses the unremarkable 5-speed of the earlier non-S in favor of a 6-speed.   

^Troof. 

Yep ^agree, I would not track a Cayman on stickier tires.  In fact I'd even be nervous tracking on the  OE 18-265's. Great Canyon/Commute/groceries daily.  Track car.. better do a lot of homework on that.

It was magnificent and got 36 mpg to boot

Ok, this is the first i've heard of that. Back before i bought a 996 i always assumed i was Boxster shopping and the fact that they didn't get that great of mileage was a minor point against them (of course the 911 is worse.. but i dont commute in it much like i planned to in a Boxster). 36mpg hwy is pretty great. 

For the Cayman I'm pretty sure you have to do an oil pickup modification

 I took the oil pan off my 911 just to have a look around (and make sure nothing terrible was lurking) and it was super easy even by normal car standards. Plus, if all you're doing is changing the pickup or adding some baffling it actually seems like it would easier to do than any of my other cars that i've brainstormed doing it to. 

In reply to Vigo :

Let me borrow that 911.

I get 20mpg in mixed city/hwy driving in a 2.7 if that makes you feel any better about your choice.

mazdeuce - Seth said:

No, the 911 is permanent, but in Houston stop and go traffic we treat it as a seasonal car (avoiding the heat). Mrs. Deuce really wants an R8 but can't convince herself to spend $80k. She's very willing to drop $20K on something beautiful and useful and I really like them. I haven't bought anything in over six months and I'm getting itchy. 

If it helps they are out there with about 40K miles in a manual around 60-64K if you really dig. 

In reply to wearymicrobe :

Mrs. Deuce actually found this thread (she's stalking me) and I talked to her about picking one up for that. She doesn't think she'd feel comfortable driving it to work and if she doesn't do that then it would mostly sit and she doesn't want to buy a $60k car to sit. She'd much rather have a $20K car that she drives the E36 M3 out of. With that said, as soon as she has a day off we're going to go find a Cayman to sit in to make sure it fits her as well as the 911 does. If it does then we'll start looking. Sounds like I don't get to buy any more big stupid trucks until after she gets something. 

I don't know how much the 986 and 987 share for the engine but our 2004 Boxster did hundreds of laps on the track and even more autocross runs and it never had a problem with the engine. Come to think it, one thing did happen. When running R compounds around a sustained high G turn, the engine smoked badly but afterwards I found that the oil was overfilled and it cleared up and never did it again. After many, many hard launches on R-comps for autocross, 1st gear broke but a good used trans was found for $800 and it took only 3 hours to swap. I think these cars are indestructible as long as regular street tires are used.

In reply to loosecannon :

That smoke may have been from a loaded air/oil separator. I changed mine myself. Not a fun job, but not terribly difficult or expensive either. Maybe 90 minutes and about $100.

In reply to Woody :

Can't possibly be worse than changing the blower motors on a 964. After that all I fear is factory sharpened Porsche steel. 

mazdeuce - Seth said:

With that said, as soon as she has a day off we're going to go find a Cayman to sit in to make sure it fits her as well as the 911 does. If it does then we'll start looking.

Stop by the house sometime and compare them side by side! The Cayman is a lot roomier in front (it's a much larger car), but you can't exactly toss a bag over your shoulder into the back seat.

One small data point: A local friend is on his second Cayman, and both times we went with the non-S so he could use the rest of his budget to equip it nicely. This is totally a street car, too, as he has a 944 for the track. 

I have a base 987.1 and for daily driving the power is adequate plus it’s fun to wind it up without having to worry about attracting too much attention. Feels like a faster and more solid Miata that makes cooler noises especially after installing a Carnewal GT catback exhaust. Interior on the first gen cars uses ‘soft touch’ plastic that tends to rub off so don’t be surprised to see peeling HVAC knobs, ashtray lid etc. Luckily there are vendors out there who can refurbish them for a reasonable price and one can tackle them as a DIY too. I had the full auto comfort seats and found them to sit a tad too high and switched to manual sport seats which feel great but they’re definitely not for everyone. 

If you can find I’d recommend getting one with PASM. Mine had the base suspension and ride quality wasn’t much to write about. Decided to go with Ohlins when they finally released a kit for 987’s but found out the supplied springs were way too stiff for DD and after a spring swap finally have a setup that I’m happy with but it’s been a long journey which would have been avoided had the car came with PASM. Not complaining though as mine was a one owner car with full records from day 1 and finding a clean one was the priority.