A question about rust

I've been reading the XJ vs. Tahoe thread and it has lead me to a question about rust. I remember when I was a young lad (think '70's and '80's) and cars and trucks around here usually lasted about 5 -7 years before succumbing to the tin worm. That first batch of Subarus around '74 or '75 were literally biodegradable. I lived in the mountains of Virginia and eastern West Virginia. Today, and since about 1988 or so, almost no new car or truck ever rusts out. Ever. They die a death of accidents or wear and tear on the mechanical parts over 3-4 ownerships. So I conclude that auto manufacturers really stepped up their game with regards to rust protection.

Now then, how in the heck did a vehicle last more than 1 or 2 winters in Cleveland back then? Jeeps have long been built in Toledo and the poor CJ series couldn't even last more than about 4 years in WV! My high school math teacher quit driving his '74 CJ-5 when the body literally tried to come off of it when he hit a bump while rounding a curve one day. It had all of 40,000 miles on it. How did people even drive these things in Ohio, New York, or Michigan for example? I'm surprised that class action law suits didn't force change. Or maybe they did?

Maybe the ol' used oil + dirt road treatment?

I often wonder that myself...and then just go back to cursing at it.

In the 60's and early 70's, cars lasted for 5 years or 100k, whichever came first.

Body on frame was easy to evaluate and easy to tell when broken. Unibody changed the game, and there was a time when lots of people drove deathtraps.

Rust issues persisted into at least the 90's. I bought a hardbody 4x4 in '94 intending for it to be my 'forever' truck but the frame rusted out before I could put 100k on it.

some did.. I had an 88 Hyundai Excel that lived it's live a block from the atlantic ocean.. that car went 160,000+ miles over a 10 year period before I traded it in on a 1999 Tiburon.. while the excel with it's carbed 1.6 and 65 hp engine was not the best car... it was still shiney and rust free when I traded it in

mad_machine wrote: some did.. I had an 88 Hyundai Excel that lived it's live a block from the atlantic ocean.. that car went 160,000+ miles over a 10 year period before I traded it in on a 1999 Tiburon.. while the excel with it's carbed 1.6 and 65 hp engine was not the best car... it was still shiney and rust free when I traded it in

but yet my 2002 Elantra is rusting away in 10 years and 10 Indiana salt filled winters.

Carro Atrezzi wrote: Today, and since about 1988 or so, almost no new car or truck ever rusts out. Ever.

Maybe not by you. Everything rusts here, some worse than others. Examples: 2nd-gen Neons are baaaaaad for rusting out the front subframes, as are Pacificas. And I've seen Magnums with no radiator support left after three years. I've seen several Grand Am/Alero/Malibu chassis cars where the rack mounts broke clean off of the subframe, and they almost all have the area by the fuel door just gone. Fords aren't immune either, especially the "Heritage" style F150s, the laterals on the cab simply disappear.

Neat thing, though, is that I'm seeing plenty of Lancer Evolutions with the rear fender lips all rotted away. Wonder how long it'll be until they're super-cheap. I can live with some body rot if it means I can get an awesome car for pennies on the dollar.

Now then, how in the heck did a vehicle last more than 1 or 2 winters in Cleveland back then?

You don't see almost exclusively 10 year old and newer cars here because we're rich. That's just all most people get out of cars.

It's not all bad, though. For instance, I can't remember the last time I did a failed emissions on a non OBD-II car.

don't give rust an alarm clock.

Knurled wrote: Maybe not by you. Everything rusts here, some worse than others. Examples: 2nd-gen Neons are baaaaaad for rusting out the front subframes, as are Pacificas. And I've seen Magnums with no radiator support left after three years. I've seen several Grand Am/Alero/Malibu chassis cars where the rack mounts broke clean off of the subframe, and they almost all have the area by the fuel door just gone. Fords aren't immune either, especially the "Heritage" style F150s, the laterals on the cab simply disappear.

this is exactly my point. given that cars are about 1 level of magnitude better on rust protection than they were 35 years ago; and I know this because they no longer ever rust out where I live. How in heck did they even make it through 1 single winter where Knurled lives back in the day?

Maybe they were driven less? More sand used instead of salt or whatever terrible liquid they put on the roads now?

I don't really know, just guessing.

Carro Atrezzi wrote: How in heck did they even make it through 1 single winter where Knurled lives back in the day?

I had a rust free Texas RX-7 that lasted exactly two winters before it was too dangerous to drive. I'm smarter than that, now, the fun cars get parked between November and May.

Of course, there's a huge difference between a 22 gauge Japanese car and the cars they made back in the day with 16-gauge+ sheetmetal and 1/8-3/16" frames. And even then, they did rust, but there was a lot more leeway between "getting rusty" and "oh crap, my car folded in half".

Something interesting that I learned: The stuff that they are using now instead of rock salt seeps into the asphalt, and you'll still rust your car apart even if you don't drive it in the winter. Must be why I need to replace sections of floor in the formerly rust free car I picked up a few years ago, despite refusing to drive it until after two or three good rains after the last road salting.

some didn't last. my dad had a 1977 vega before i was born that was rotted through and he bondoed the crap out of and painted with house paint. i was born in 80 so the car rotted out in 2 years.

i see plenty of 07+ rams up here with the upper wheel arch rotted off the bed, and a lady that used to work for us had a kia sedona that the tailgate handle rotted off of when it was 2 years old.

stuff definitely seems to be holding up a little better than it used to as far as cosmetics but the undersides can go to hell quickly. they use a new brine mix now that they put on the roads wet, and that really gets into all the nooks and crannies and seams and eats stuff from the inside out. i had a 97 caravan in 2002 that had a gaping rot hole in the hood right on the edge at the seam.

In the olden days cars could rust out in a few years. The saving grace is they were generally body on frame, and even with rust holes they were still structurally sound (at least for a while, until the frames rusted out as well.)

i don't know what you are saying about new cars being better than old cars.. line up 10 random 5 year old cars around here, and 9 of them will have rust in at least one rocker panel with 6 of them having holes big enough to stick a couple of fingers thru..

Blame the Germans.

Cars in the 70s had a five year lifespan. This was not entirely due to chance.

The Germans wanted to position themselves as a superior product and command a higher price. They started galvanizing body panels; technology way beyond the dreams of the domestic manufactures

As usual, the Japanese were the quickest to respond and started to improve upon the rust protection game. The North Americans reluctantly joining the game.

The end result is that the anti-corrosion bar has been raised and cars should be safe for ten years or so. Could it be better? Yeah, sure, but what is the motivation for the car companies.

Wife unit and I both bought 2002 Proteges. I oiled mine every year. She did not bother. Mine looked better than her's, but they were both worth $300 as trade ins even with very low miles. So why bother unless a bit of rust in the last three years bothers you.

Having lived all of my 42 years in the heart of the rust belt (SE Michigan), I can say with some authority that cars are CONSIDERABLY better from a corrosion-resistance standpoint now than they were in the 70s and 80s. And back in those days Japanese cars were known as the worst rusters, though mechanically they already had a great reputation. But it used to be nothing to see surface rust on a 2-year-old car. If you wanted it to last, you got it rustproofed at a place like Ziebart, which helped some.

Having said that, I was recently very disappointed to see bubbling paint on the inside of the rear hatch on my wife's 4-year-old Taurus X. Partially due to that, and my general paranoia, I'm going to be hitting all of our vehicles with Fluid Film soon. I'm still hoping for the Taurus and F-150 to be 8-10 year vehicles for us, and rust is the #1 thing that could prevent that from happening. Besides my ADD, of course....

Most new car now go in to a full dip tank where as in years past they just got surface paint and rusted from the inside out.

@ Tom Spangler -

I'm with you 100%, I'm going to start hitting our vehicles with Fluid Film. We have a deep sink off the garage in the house we just moved into, so I'm looking forward to being able to wash the cars regularly throughout the winter.

Our fleet of 3 are all 2005/2006 vehicles, and we're hoping to run all of them into the ground (hopefully many years from now). I've come to the same conclusion that rust is my #1 enemy in terms of keeping them on a road for a long time.

My old '94 Chevy K1500 rusted badly after they starting throwing down the new chemicals here in CT, and although the body didn't have much rust, by the end I was dealing with the following issues:

• Rear cab mounts rusted through
• Hard brake lines rusted through and replaced
• Fuel lines rusted through and were replaced
• Rear support for the spare tire was rusting through
• Heavy surface rust on the frame

I ended up throwing good money after bad on that truck, if I had to do it over again I would have sold it after the first hard brake line went, as it was just a preview of the rust issues I would have been fighting the next few years. I picked up that truck when it was eight years old, and sold it when it was 16 years old. Unfortunately, I think the first owner used it to launch a boat in salt water, as the back half of the frame was in far worse shape than the front half. I even found sand in the back bumper and up on the rear frame.

Keeping that experience in mind, I'm trying to prevent rust from getting a foothold in any of our current vehicles.