A Series Based on Low-Buck Econoboxes?

Turboeric said:

I'm old enough to remember Honda Canada sponsoring the Honda Challenge in the late 70s, with the original Civics, bog stock. It was hilarious racing - tires howling, bump drafting, cornering on 2 or 3 wheels, brakes going away. It was much closer and more intense competition than in many of the 'senior' series, much the way all the iterations of Spec Miata are a couple of generations later.

I used to see those Honda Michelin series cars at Mosport in the 80s, and you're right, they were a riot to watch. They were often the most entertaining race of the weekend with 6,7,8 cars freight-training through corner 2.

Most of the gripes here are quoting DIY costs and comparing it to crapcans and used cars.  

$20K for a factory built BRAND NEW turn key racecar with engineered everything is cheap!  

Considering the ND cup car is like 55k and thats considered a good deal yeah.

The power and weight of the Micra is about the same as my ITB VW GTI was, back in 1996, and I had a lot of fun racing that car. Only issue I have with the Micra build is the fact that the cages are bolt-in. I've always preferred a welded cage, but I have no real reason why.

z31maniac said:

A cage doesn't cost anywhere near that much to have a pro do it, there are other rated safety products that aren't Schroth or FIA rated Recaro's etc. 

 

It's always obvious who has and hasn't priced things out and who is exaggerating for the sake of making a point.

That too, but I think it's a what the market will bear thing.

I've built a lot of cages and should have a good idea what one would cost, but I once heard a rally wannabe tell another one that a cage alone was $5k. I laughed at that, then I saw what those guys pay for stuff. 

Zomby Woof said: I've built a lot of cages and should have a good idea what one would cost, but I once heard a rally wannabe tell another one that a cage alone was $5k. I laughed at that, then I saw what those guys pay for stuff. 

Most people (like me) don't do their own custom fabrication work and have to pay someone to put a cage in the car. A custom-made cage costs pretty good money at a reputable race/rally shop (especially if you're adding labor to remove the dash, paint the cage, etc.).

Like most people, I don't have the time, skill, tools, or space to fabricate the kind of cage I wanted for my racecar. Quotes I got ranged from $3500 to $6000. It seems you guys are talking about putting together pre-fabricated, bolt-in cages. I'd expect them to cost much less.

dculberson said:

There have been some 190e Cosworths in Lemons. I imagine they were bargains that then had parts sold off. One won in Alabama the only year I got to run at Barber Motorsports Park. They sure are fast and sound fantastic!

You can still find good deals. I bought my '87 about 7-8 years ago. Clean, rust-free, accident-free SoCal car. I paid $4000 and immediately recovered $1000 when I sold the horrid chrome Lorinser wheels that came with it. Since then, I've bought a couple of complete cars for $2000 (drivable) and $1500 (parts car).

There's a complete, low-mileage 190E 16v for sale in Arizona right now. Black with 5-speed gearbox. The owner is asking $1800. The paint is sun-burnt and it needs work to run (sounds like CIS issues). But it would make for a solid project.

LanEvo said: It seems you guys are talking about putting together pre-fabricated, bolt-in cages. I'd expect them to cost much less.

I built them from scratch and they weren't 6 point cages, either (those I could build in a day) but if it were for something like the Micra, it should be even easier, having the jigs and already having built a number of them.

wow.. the 10 grand price to turn a car from street to strip really brought out some Interesting points from people here. I can't say I was expecting that.

In reply to LanEvo :

Not bolt in; none of the capcan racing series accept bolt in cages, at least not any more. 

An $1800 190e would be a blast. 

Some of the prices seem a bit steep. But I too believe 4k is a good average for a cage.

LanEvo said:

Zomby Woof said: I've built a lot of cages and should have a good idea what one would cost, but I once heard a rally wannabe tell another one that a cage alone was $5k. I laughed at that, then I saw what those guys pay for stuff. 

Most people (like me) don't do their own custom fabrication work and have to pay someone to put a cage in the car. A custom-made cage costs pretty good money at a reputable race/rally shop (especially if you're adding labor to remove the dash, paint the cage, etc.).

Like most people, I don't have the time, skill, tools, or space to fabricate the kind of cage I wanted for my racecar. Quotes I got ranged from $3500 to $6000. It seems you guys are talking about putting together pre-fabricated, bolt-in cages. I'd expect them to cost much less.

Nope, and I already said as such earlier in the thread.

In reply to mad_machine :like all low cost entry level series cost will grow.  

Formula V, Formula Ford, heck even Formula Jr were all low cost entry level series that got out of control.  

Zomby Woof said:

I built them from scratch and they weren't 6 point cages, either (those I could build in a day) but if it were for something like the Micra, it should be even easier, having the jigs and already having built a number of them.

I’ll have to call you when it comes time to put a cage in the TR6 project! 

mad_machine said:

wow.. the 10 grand price to turn a car from street to strip really brought out some Interesting points from people here. I can't say I was expecting that.

To me, making a $10k car into a $20k car is completely missing the point, but I've often thought that rally is kept unnecessarily expensive just to keep some people out of it . It's definitely the most cliquish (I'm being nice) form of racing I've ever experienced, and I expect this is no different.

frenchyd said:

In reply to mad_machine :like all low cost entry level series cost will grow.  

Formula V, Formula Ford, heck even Formula Jr were all low cost entry level series that got out of control.  

 

yes, because people kept chasing 1sts at ANY cost. That is the benefit of a series like this, all the improvements are in the driver as the care identical. I wonder if they will make the fastest drivers use the slowest cars?

In reply to mad_machine :That's exactly what they said about all the other low cost series.  Turns out there always will be production variations and if you buy enough parts you get to pick the best ones to put things together. 

The serious competitor will buy 50 crankshafts to select one or two optimum ones. 200 connecting rods, 200 pistons etc etc