ABS brakes for HPDE?

You know what else would make one a better threshold braker?  Bias-ply tires and drums on all four corners.

ABS is awesome. YES run ABS.  Just because it's there doesn't mean you have to use it.  

Disclaimer:  I've never encountered ice mode in any car, but I have contributed to the flat-spotting of a tire or three.  

Maybe I'm not the greatest driver on earth-- there, I said it.  But when something unexpected happens (say a car comes shooting across the track in front of you backwards while you're two or three wide,) it's nice to be able to steer and brake without concentrating on dancing on the knife edge of threshold braking.

I would LOVE it if our crapcan Honda had it, because somehow the tires end up looking like octagons at the end of a race weekend and I'm not the chief flatspotting perpetrator.

ABS adds a dramatic margin of safety and performance. 

The key to all of this is *good* ABS.  Problem is, a lot of ABS (especially older stuff) isn't really all that good.  So there are plenty of cases where it's better to go without (and plenty where keeping it will be better). 

The big thing to watch is that IMO, a lot of cars have to little pedal effort, especially with aggressive pads.  That can make it hard to drive well without ABS unless you swap to a bigger master, smaller booster or change the pedal ratio to increase the pedal effort. 

I've run my E36 M3 race car with and without ABS. Its drivable without ABS, but it depends on the setup. In the E36, the brake bias is also controlled by the ABS pump. So with no ABS, it is super super easy to lock up a wheel, especially on sticky tires. This can be overcome with a pedal box setup but thats alot of $.

On the SE30s I've raced, I haven't had any issues locking wheels up. Those cars are pretty easy to drive with no ABS, but you can still lock it up if you are really pushing.

There are plenty of arguments on this thread for and against running ABS. In the end, I'm just a club racer, not an F1 driver. Its a hobby, and I want to have fun racing my car. Its a ton more fun for me to have proper brake bias and not be cording Hoosiers every weekend. Choose what makes your car more fun for you.

I like the ABS on my integra, it was easy to install the itr prop valve and ecu as an added bonus 

If I had a pre97 integra, I would be inclined to delete it b/c of all the issues the older system has

Something interesting I've came across when preparing an ITA car was that the rules state having ABS active will constitute a slight weight penalty. I think with mid-2000s cars and older most decent drivers can outperform ABS when braking. On modern cars however ABS has become very good. A lot of people on the track during HPDEs depend on it more than they realize and would probably lock up under braking in a non ABS equipped car. 

HPDE is not racing so there is no need to brake to the ABS point.  Lifting a wheel is done AFTER braking and past the apex. You only brake to slow the car to the corner speed.   Like slowing from 115 to 60 , down shifting also helps slow the car. Just a reason to not really worry about ABS.

iceracer said:

HPDE is not racing so there is no need to brake to the ABS point.  Lifting a wheel is done AFTER braking and past the apex. You only brake to slow the car to the corner speed.   Like slowing from 115 to 60 , down shifting also helps slow the car. Just a reason to not really worry about ABS.

I'm assuming you're a better driver than me (I mean that seriously, not in a sarcastic annoying internet way), but for the sake of argument - I hit ABS on nearly every lap on nearly every corner with heavy braking (i.e. not in sweepers, etc - so at sonoma that would corner 4/7/11) when driving my ABS car.

Part of that is trail braking to get the car to want to turn in I suppose? The ABS kicks a lot in off line points when passing deep into corners (I run HPDE4/TT - open passing) - there are tons of marbles and debris. I drive non-abs cars (I have an exocet, miata, eg hatch), but love switching to my "nice" ABS car (a 2013 M.Y. so probably better than the mid-90s stuff some might be discussing here).

So the question is: do you mean that a driver shouldn't ever lean on the ABS in non race situations? That's contrary to the fast drivers I talk to indicate (i.e. if you got it, use it, just know you're using it and how). 

iceracer said:

HPDE is not racing so there is no need to brake to the ABS point.  Lifting a wheel is done AFTER braking and past the apex. You only brake to slow the car to the corner speed.   Like slowing from 115 to 60 , down shifting also helps slow the car. Just a reason to not really worry about ABS.

What if you're going up the HPDE ladder at NASA with the goal of TT? With the eventual goal of racing? 

Give it up, ABS is very useful for the non-GOD like among us.