Addressing Internet Myths About LS Swaps

In reply to TurboFocus :

Lexus LS400/SC400/GS400.

Look up Skid Factory on YouTubes. An MCM off shoot, they stick a 1UZ in an Aussie Falcon, and turbo it, on the cheap. 

AwesomeAuto said:

Claim 2: Swapping an LS for an Earlier GM V8 Is a Bolt-In Project

-Most certainly can be. $35 adapter plates allow you to reuse 3-bolt SBC engine mounts, bolting them to your block, dropping the engine in.

As long as you don't mind not having A/C.  If you want A/C, you need to move the chassis side engine mount back a few inches.  Or spend a bunch of money for one of those compressor relocator setups.

Most people who want to repower an old ride want to keep the A/C.

Trackmouse said:

I put one in a third gen celica. Plenty of room to service. A miata could be tight. The ITBs sound good but don’t make much power, at least for the cost. Turbo is where the 1uz shines. 1,000hp is totally doable.

My whole gripe with LS motors is that you either buy a steel boat anchor for a relatively cheap price (the person has to *not* know what they are selling), or you buy an aluminum LS that’ll cost more than most cars it’s being put in. 

You can find the 4.8 and 5.3 vans and trucks, but then you have to swap heads, and dick with the other things mentioned in the article. The 1uz needs a stand-alone and that’s it. Add a turbo, amazing power. 

You aren't helping my resolve to leave the LS400 alone haha... it's already reasonably quick for a 4000 lb car! Well aware of their love of boost, particularly the earlier engines before the rod change.I agree that the ITB's are a bit of a waste on a relatively stock engine. As part of a more comprehensive build though... worth it, just for the sound they make.

Had a second gen Celica myself, as well as a second gen Supra, at the same time. Nice cars overall. Not sure why there would be any doubt about a 1uz hitting 1000hp. It's been my experience with JZ's that they can take quite the abuse on the stock internals, as far as boost pressures go. Friend of mine, Albert Meade, made over 755whp on a 1jz on the stock bottom end, and that engine lives to this day. He also joked that the 1uz is what the 2j wants to be when it grows up. Lots of boost, cams, valve springs, retainers, ethanol, and a solid tune, I genuinely believe 1000whp out of a 1uz would be well within reach, and likely fairly reliable at that.

Can't say I've seen it, but I never count out the fringe ideas. It's only "crazy" until someone proves that it works. =)

All that said, I'll likely put an LS3 in one of our Miatas. Have done enough "figuring things out" on the Supra to last me quite a long time, would be nice to have a project of this caliber that's a little more of a known path for a change.

The price point is a big one that usually makes me quit reading about people's cars. So many people have a 6.0 swap that claim they have 500 bucks in everything including the cam, heads, intake and nitrous package. Having done a few swaps myself, never LS but the little detail stuff seems to always catch people off guard. 

In reply to dropstep :I think affordable swaps are easier in a race car than a street car.  

No HVAC to worry about, no pollution laws, often no lighting.  

dropstep said:

The price point is a big one that usually makes me quit reading about people's cars. So many people have a 6.0 swap that claim they have 500 bucks in everything including the cam, heads, intake and nitrous package. Having done a few swaps myself, never LS but the little detail stuff seems to always catch people off guard. 

Yep, that was the sort of myth that I was looking to address here. The reality is that instead of a direct bolt in, you get a bunch of parts that need to be modified or various little nickle and dime parts. AwesomeAuto didn't mention the exhaust manifolds, which might clear everything if you're lucky and came with the engine, but there's no way you will be able to use Gen 1 SBC headers or manifolds with an LS1. There's a good chance you'll have to hunt down a different set of manifolds or headers.

Having done an LS swap, I can tell you from direct experience that it costs ALOT of money.  Unless you're doing all the labor yourself and custom fabbing up everything you need for the swap yourself, there's NO way you're getting it done for under $10k, with an LS1, 2, 3, 6 etc.

9 years ago an LS1 with all accessories, PCM and wiring harness cost me $2500.  The swap kit with headers, bell housing, motor mounts, hydroboost brakes, cam, radiator, Turn1 PS pump, exhaust etc were at least $6000-7500.  Then labor to put it all in.

I've played with the idea of LS swapping my E36 M3.  Just the needed swap kit stuff from Vorshlag is close to $5000.  Then I'd need the LS motor and T56 transmission, than labor.  So $10-15k.

Yes, you can do it for less using an iron block 4.8 or 5.3, but again, unless you're fabbing up all the necessary swap kit stuff, you're going to spend $4-5000 on that stuff alone...

wheels777 said:

LS conversion's can be done on the cheap. We have done it and proved it.  Anyone can take a look at the parts we've used and verify the sources.

Yes, we can do it cheap for the challenge.  we are also making most everything for the swap.  You can have cubic talents or cubic dollars, one is going to cost time and one costs money.

my impala is a combination.  I bought some off the shelf bits(mount adapters and wiring harness) and made some stuff.  It was my first completed running swap.  I’ve since changed out the iron 5.3 in favor of an aluminum ls1 with comp cams valvetrain that i got off CL for $1100 complete with camaro accessories.  I have around $2500 into that swap because i used new from gm 10 years ago camaro oil pan and the necessary just released 07 truck water pump.  That’s including a matching 25k mile  2wd ls truck 4l60e and a 3200 stall torque converter.   The harness/pcm were $800 and off the shelf camaro headers were made to work.   I’m a better fabricator now and not afraid of wiring anymore so it costs me less at the expense of time

We all have different means to the end, whatever makes you happiest is what you should do.  I LOVE the build and the thrill of making something myself.  But there are days i wish i could just write a check and have a finished product

But again, those are the boat anchor Ls motors. Does anyone have a challenge build using an aluminum ls?

Trackmouse said:

But again, those are the boat anchor Ls motors. Does anyone have a challenge build using an aluminum ls?

I really do appreciate your help with the subaru stuff, but why should i take you seriously when you say stuff like this?

In reply to Trackmouse :

I snagged a 2000 Trans Am with a manual for $1500. It will be getting Challenged this year - obviously not a swap build. I plan to drop it into an e36 bmw afterward. Sadly I don’t have the fab capabilities to get it in place under budget. But I’m watching these LS1 topics closely for tips. I’m pretty set on shelling out for the Vorshlag swap kit. I’m hoping to have it all done on about $7k including the purchase of the cars. 

While I haven't kept very good track of what I have into my FC, I'm sure I'm well under $10k for the LS1/T56 swap, and I could have saved a bunch more off of that if I were really trying. Paid IIRC $1300 for the RX-7, bought my totaled Camaro engine donor back from the insurance company for $1100 and sold about $14-1500 worth of parts off of it pretty easily, about $600 for the Ronin mount kit, $900 or so in the headers, $250 to have the wiring harness stripped to the basics, $650 or so for HPTuners, probably $300 total in my radiator setup, maybe another $200 in plumbing the fuel system, $400 or so in the exhaust...So call it $6k or so including purchase price of the car and neglecting what I was able to part out off of the donor.

Getting a donor that cheap is definitely going to be the hardest part to replicate, but sub $3k LS1 F bodies aren't all that uncommon, and if you can live with a truck motor and auto trans that's going to be a lot less yet. I could have also cut a bunch of expense out fabbing mounts, using f body manifolds, doing the wiring harness myself, reusing radiator from the donor, ect - that's probably $2k+ right there. I don't think any of that fab work is far out of reach of most GRMers, it just becomes a matter of how much convenience do you want to pay for? 

Also depends a lot on what chassis you're swapping into. I chose the FC over an E36 or 944 specifically because I knew it would require a lot less of the ancillary crap those two would - no messing with brake boosters, or steering column clearance, could run manual steering, get away with stock diff (for now, at least)... - heck, I can even use an off the shelf $50 C4 Corvette driveshaft. 

docwyte said:

Having done an LS swap, I can tell you from direct experience that it costs ALOT of money.  Unless you're doing all the labor yourself and custom fabbing up everything you need for the swap yourself, there's NO way you're getting it done for under $10k, with an LS1, 2, 3, 6 etc.

9 years ago an LS1 with all accessories, PCM and wiring harness cost me $2500.  The swap kit with headers, bell housing, motor mounts, hydroboost brakes, cam, radiator, Turn1 PS pump, exhaust etc were at least $6000-7500.  Then labor to put it all in.

I've played with the idea of LS swapping my E36 M3.  Just the needed swap kit stuff from Vorshlag is close to $5000.  Then I'd need the LS motor and T56 transmission, than labor.  So $10-15k.

Yes, you can do it for less using an iron block 4.8 or 5.3, but again, unless you're fabbing up all the necessary swap kit stuff, you're going to spend $4-5000 on that stuff alone...

It depends on what application you are putting it into. I know a lot of z32/z33 guys usually go with the kits to get there install done and they have a hard time keeping it under $10k doing it that way. I have $3k into my 4.8 swapped z31 (which outside of motor mounts there is no kit available) which is more then i thought it'd be but considerably less then $10k. Everything i used was off the shelf/used parts and pieces except the brackets i had to make to get the trans mount to work which really was just some angle iron with some holes drilled in it and a coulple spacers and square tube to mount my alternator lower so it's not like i saved alot by fabricating my own parts. If i would have went with a LS1/2/3 etc. then it would be a grand or 2 more but still would be no way close to $10k.

Patrick said:

Trackmouse said:

But again, those are the boat anchor Ls motors. Does anyone have a challenge build using an aluminum ls?

I really do appreciate your help with the subaru stuff, but why should i take you seriously when you say stuff like this?

I see he seems to have a lot of love for 1uz's and a lot of hate for LS's. I too love the 1uz but the proof is in the pudding, if it was as simple as a LS swap then there would be more people and more parts/kits for 1uz swaps. I have no doubt that a uz can make 1000 hp with boost but for every one uz making 1k hp there are 10 LS's making the same power. Also he said the 4.8/5.3's need a head swap to be decent were a uz doesnt but if i remember right the worst of the truck/van heads still flows better then a 1uz head stock-for-stock. he said the uz only needs a stand alone harness made and it's ready to swap in, no different for the LS and it can be tuned through the stock ecm and there are free tunes online so you can find one close to your build (stock, cam, boost, and everything in between) and dial it in from there. he said to get a cheap 'boat anchor' you have to find a seller who doesn't know what they have, i got my motor for $400 with harness and ecm from a guy who was planning on using it for a swap so he know there was a market for them.

Just because you love the 1uz and for whatever reason hate the LS there really is no reason to talk down what is easily the most common swapped engine for probably the last decade.

My LS3 MG is under $10k, but I don't have solid numbers. If I lived in a more populous area I'm sure I could have recouped more on parting out the donor Camaro, but I still paid what I was happy to pay for it. I had to build just about everything for it but I was able to use some off-the-shelf Miata LS conversion parts. It's not the sort of swap most people want to do, though - because it hadn't been done before, it was a very large amount of fabrication and the expected dead ends and rework that you always get if you're not buying engineered parts.

This is where internet lore gets sketchy. You can either work hard, make mistakes, take a long time and do it for cheap; or you can pay the money for someone else's time/effort/knowledge. About the only time you get well engineered, easy and cheap are when you're taking advantage of OE interchange.

Patrick said:

Trackmouse said:

But again, those are the boat anchor Ls motors. Does anyone have a challenge build using an aluminum ls?

I really do appreciate your help with the subaru stuff, but why should i take you seriously when you say stuff like this?

Sigh... didn’t mean anything derogatory. Simply stating the iron engines are heavy. Sweet Jesus, mankind has failed. 

"Boat anchor" is the standard internet term for any iron block engine, it seems.

In reply to Trackmouse :

And to answer your question about the aluminum block LS, yes it has been challenged. Vorshlag did it in the bmw.

wheels777 said:

Trackmouse said:

But again, those are the boat anchor Ls motors. Does anyone have a challenge build using an aluminum ls?

Two of the top 4 cars at the 2017 Challenge had aluminum LS engines. 3 of the top 4 had LS engines. 

Thank you for actually reading and answering the question without contempt. I’m super happy you have literary comprehension skills above...”others”

In reply to wheels777 :

Exactly. My point is simply that I did most things the expensive way in my build and still came out well under $10k. I have zero doubt an aluminum block LS swap could be done for challenge budget by enterprising individuals such as yourselves. 

Trackmouse said:

Patrick said:

Trackmouse said:

But again, those are the boat anchor Ls motors. Does anyone have a challenge build using an aluminum ls?

I really do appreciate your help with the subaru stuff, but why should i take you seriously when you say stuff like this?

Sigh... didn’t mean anything derogatory. Simply stating the iron engines are heavy. Sweet Jesus, mankind has failed. 

Generally speaking boat anchor means junk anywhere I’ve heard it, like a 305.  I was unaware of the internet protocol change in which people use the term to refer to any iron block apparently.  I’ve only ever heard it used as a derogatory term 

Trackmouse said:

In reply to edizzle89 :

And I never did. R-E-A-D people. READ. Effing, READ. God, how illiterate can people be?

Chill dude, we're all friends here.

There are deals out there but not everywhere. You have to jump on deals when they pop up. 

A couple months ago I passed a deal over to a friend due to lack of space.  It was a running one ower 2002 150k LS1/T56 Camaro vert with a slipping clutch for $1500.

A brief list of my LS hoarding.

Full 80k mile LS1 / T56 pull out for $2500.  Sold about $500 of other stuff off the car before sending the shell back. 

 250k mile running 2000 Trans Am with an LS1/auto for $600. 

Complete 4.8 with harness from a roll over. $150.

LS6 Intake with one broken mount for $75.

GTO T56 and LS6 intake with injectors and rail for $1000.

Also recently purchased a previously swapped LS RX8 which has the mounts, 1 7/8 longtube headers and exhaust, driveshaft, etc (just needs the drivetrain) for under challenge budget including delivery from NC to FL.

Now just finding the time, motivation and skill to finish a project.