Aging gracefully - off-season discussion / advice

I've owned my current toy car, the Manic Miata, for almost 14 years.  It's a 1996 A-package / base car.

It's far from stock.  It was built as an autocross / track day car that could still be street legal.  Like any multipurpose tool, it's somewhat compromised by that, but I'm not a pointy-end driver anyway, and it has served me perfectly.  It is a hoot to drive and despite its highly modified nature, it is absolutely dead-nuts reliable.

But it is somewhat of a bureaucratic problem child, and it is pretty rowdy - a bit harsh, a bit loud, a bit rough around the edges.  It is not a comfortable summer cruiser.  DW doesn't like to ride in it, with the racing buckets and harnesses, etc.  The A/C is long gone.

So... I think maybe it's time for something that fills the Miata niche but in a somewhat more civilized, and most importantly, nearly stock format.

I've loved every minute of owning a Miata, but I've had the Miata experience.  I'd like to sample something else, I think.  Here's the general criteria:

• Prefer a roadster / convertible / folding hardtop.
   
• Prefer smaller size - 2 seater is fine.  It's a toy.
   
• Prefer manual trans; driver-oriented clutchless like PDK / DSG could work too and would mean DW could drive it.
   
• I'd really like it to have a mechanical LSD if possible.
   
• Prefer newer rather than older for safety reasons.
   
• Fun to autocross in Street class, or ST at most.  Does not need to be top-of-class, but competitive would be nice.  I'm in it for fun rather than championships, but don't want to drive a dog.

Here's the challenging bit:

• Hard budget cap of $10,000.

I think I could probably sell the Manic Miata in the $7500 range.  It's supercharged with solid dyno results; it's had the FM and Moss catalogs (circa late Oughties) thrown at it, and it has zero rust.  But it is a race car, not a show car. It's an older build, and while everything is functional, it is not perfect.  Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I figure that's a reasonable price point to open the discussion.

I'm retiring in the near future, so I don't want to spend a bunch.  I can probably add $2500 to the recoup, so we'll start at $10 large.

Suggestions?  Go!

NC Miata with mild lowering springs, decent shocks, upgraded sway bars and a roll hoop........................BAM done.

I am making my Foxbody Mustang more street friendly. The interior is bone stock and I won't be putting race seats in it. I've actually changed the suspension to make it ride better. Next up is redoing the exhaust so it's not as loud. 

If there is anyway you could put the AC back in the current car I would do that as well as soften up the suspension a bit and put stock seats back in it.

I think you're looking at European stuff to fill this niche.  Either a BMW Z3/Z4, or a first gen Porsche Boxster would check all your boxes.  Maaaaybe an E90 with a convertible hardtop, but that's starting to get away from outright fun.

E-street still dominated by MR2 spiders? They are getting some years on themselves but so are the NC and Boxsters suggested as well. Go drive 1 of each.

If you would like to try on a 986 Boxster S, I'm not far from you, though my car is not for sale.  I have about $10k in it now, though significant amounts of labor to fix things.  

Sounds like a Boxster is your answer. If your budget was a bit higher, you could get a 2nd generation Boxster (2005 on up, 987.1) that has a somewhat better engine design than the 986. I had a 2002 base (2.7 engine) and it was a lot of fun to drive. Much more refined and comfortable than a Miata, and faster. Your supercharged Miata may be as quick or quicker than the base Boxster, though. The Boxster actually was a good trip car, long-legged, much quieter than a Miata, and with much more trunk capacity.

Yup, a 986 is the droid you seek 

Somebody had a nice Pontiac Solatice - too bad it's an automatic.  I guess if you blew out your knee next weekend.....

The one thing (like really just about the only thing) I found my 986 to be underwhelming at in stock form was autocross. Being an S might have helped, but I don't think non -basket case 986S are really available at the $10k price point these days. For it to be reasonably fun you're looking at at least a mild st build (or a full street class build) which is fine but it's going to blow out the budget even more.

Smells like boxster or some sort of 2 door bmw. 
 

beyond that you could find a mustang and just have fun. 🤩 

Tom1200 said:

NC Miata with mild lowering springs, decent shocks, upgraded sway bars and a roll hoop........................BAM done.

 

This.  Though I don't think you can get into a power hardtop version at your budget.  The ND is objectively better, but I still think the NC PRHT is the perfect street Miata, maybe the perfect street roadster.

A Boxster or Z3 may also get you where you want to be, but I don't think so on $10k.  Something about the most expensive German car is a cheap one??

Duke said:

a bit harsh, a bit loud, a bit rough around the edges

A statement I almost never hear is "I'm glad I sold my NA Miata; I don't miss it." 

What if, instead of selling your car and getting a different one you try to address some of your issues with your current car?

1. Swap the stock seat (or a stock+ seat) back into the passenger side for DW to ride in. It's 5 bolts so you can always swap the racing seat back in if you're at a track day that requires an instructor. The passenger seat is now less harsh. 

2. Swap whatever your current suspension is for the FM Fox setup. You'll get much better street comfort without giving up very much at all around the cones. The ride is now less harsh.

3. Swap to a quieter muffler and go back to the stock airbox (or build a box for your CAI). The car is now quieter. 

4. Spend some time with the moss catalog to improve the interior and/or fix some things. The car is now less rough around the edges.

5. Consider reinstalling the AC. The car is now a better summer cruiser. 

Every car I could think of has be named, but I'll add my voice to the NC Miata recommendation. That's coming from an ND-RF owner, too. Miatas are the easy button for sports cars for good reason.

In reply to CrashDummy :

I don't miss mine.  I'm just too big. It was fun on track and terrible everywhere else. 

Not sure how good or bad they are at autox but we picked up a 128i convertible for my parents this summer and it's been great for fitting into that bigger / nicer than a miata but still fun to drive and not terrible on maintenance check box. They can be had under 10K without being trashed but finding a manual is difficult and the auto is not all that sporting. Can always get a 135 for more power.  

Other non-porsche options would be the A3 Cab but it's DSG only and  outside your price range. A 2.5 swapped NC is probably the ticket. 

You know my answer, brother.

I went through the same thing; my supercharged Miata was fast but not competitive and had gotten a little to rowdy for transits to and from events. So, having codriven MR2 Spyders a couple times to smashing success, I hunted one down and made the jump. All I did was put an Addco front sway bar on and source the best wheel setup (15x6 949Racing 6ULs front, 15x6.5 Konig Heliums rear), installed some 205/50R15 Bridgestone RE71RSs and went racing. It's quiet, it's dead-nuts reliable (just remove those precats), the ABS is really good so you aren't driving home with flat-spotted tires, it gets 38mpg, and I've taken it everywhere. Down to Pennsylvania, over to Vermont, up to Ausable Chasm, and a few other trips within the state. My codriver and I easily put over 100 runs on it this year and we ended up 2nd and 4th overall and 2nd and 3rd in Pro, and this was our first year for the car. The other thing is that after years of being the ugly step-sibling of the MR2 family, the Spyder finally seems to be getting some respect and prices are going up now. They're not terribly common (total production was less than 25k) so if you get one now, and don't like it or change your mind in a couple years, you won't get hurt financially.

CrashDummy said:

Duke said:

a bit harsh, a bit loud, a bit rough around the edges

A statement I almost never hear is "I'm glad I sold my NA Miata; I don't miss it." 

What if, instead of selling your car and getting a different one you try to address some of your issues with your current car?

1. Swap the stock seat (or a stock+ seat) back into the passenger side for DW to ride in. It's 5 bolts so you can always swap the racing seat back in if you're at a track day that requires an instructor. The passenger seat is now less harsh. 

2. Swap whatever your current suspension is for the FM Fox setup. You'll get much better street comfort without giving up very much at all around the cones. The ride is now less harsh.

3. Swap to a quieter muffler and go back to the stock airbox (or build a box for your CAI). The car is now quieter. 

4. Spend some time with the moss catalog to improve the interior and/or fix some things. The car is now less rough around the edges.

5. Consider reinstalling the AC. The car is now a better summer cruiser. 

 

I don't regret selling my Miata at all. That said, $10k is a rough price point for low modification cars that autocross well, especially with a decently set up Miata as the reference. Putting a bit of money into improving the car might be the way to go.

In reply to NickD :

Yeah, as discussed elsewhere, I codrove a 2ZZ-swapped (but otherwise fairly stock) MR-S, and it was a lot of fun without being too rambunctious.  Throttle steering it was a blast.

It was not entirely easy to get in and out of despite having stock seats, but I'm sure I'd get used to it.

The pedal box was very narrow and I'm used to the Miat's pedal spacing.  I'm sure that would also take care of itself in time.  This one also had some type of subwoofer box in place of the bottom part of the center stack, so that probably cost a little legroom.

What's the year / trim level to have?

*****************************************

I'm planning to solve the Manic Miata's legal issues by registering it as a street rod, which will exempt it from emissions inspections.  That will restrict the permissable use of the car, but not hugely different from the way I use it anyway.  But I think I will spend the off-season eyballing replacements.

Thanks for everyone's input - I'd love to hear more discussion.

CrashDummy said:

Duke said:

a bit harsh, a bit loud, a bit rough around the edges

A statement I almost never hear is "I'm glad I sold my NA Miata; I don't miss it." 

What if, instead of selling your car and getting a different one you try to address some of your issues with your current car?

That would, I think, just make this car disappointing rather than more pleasant.

As it sits, it's very well balanced and fun to drive, but not entirely competitive.  Extracting more out of it would require money and effort I'd rather not spend - it could use more negative camber, wider wheels (which would in turn require a sawzall and flares), and a big splitter / spoiler combo.

Rather than neutering this car, I'd rather pass it on to someone who wants it as a starting point, and find something that more closely meets my current wants.

In reply to Duke :

There's not really any trim levels on Spyders. They were pretty much all built the same way, just your option was the paint color and later on whether you wanted the SMT or the 5-speed. There are pre-facelift (2000-2002) cars and facelift cars (2003-2005) and the cosmetic stuff is a matter of taste. Which one is better mechanically is a toss-up. The facelift cars reportedly have better engine internals, there was an optional LSD, new dampers and springs, and they had 15x6 F/16x7 R wheels versus the 15x6 F/15x6.5 R of the earlier cars. 

The easy way to tell them apart at a glance is the front bumper. Pre-facelift don't have foglights, facelift do. 

Some people swear the facelifted cars make the better autocrosser because of the wider rear wheels and availability of an LSD, some extra chassis bracing. Other say the pre-facelift cars are better because they're lighter, the extra half inch of rear wheel width doesn't do anything for performance (although 15x7 wheels are easier to find than 15x6.5s), and the LSD just tends to make them understeer a lot. Also, I believe the different dampers and springs on the later car make them sit a little higher.

I'm of the pre-facelift camp. I think they look better, light weight is always better, and there's never been an instance where I've felt like the open differential has hampered the car's performance. Even in the 46 degree and rainy conditions at our last autocross, the car always felt sure-footed and never struggled to put the power down. None of the other Spyders in our region are facelifted cars either.

The pre-facelift cars are also easier to find because sales trended downwards from introduction.

• 2000: 7,233
• 2001: 6,750
• 2002: 5,109
• 2003: 3,249
• 2004: 2,800
• 2005: 780

That's 19,092 pre-facelift cars versus the 6,829 facelifted cars. 

In reply to NickD :

Awesome, thanks.

I like the suggestion of a 128. That aught to hit the mix of performance and comfort nicely. 

Fueled by Caffeine said:

In reply to CrashDummy :

...It was fun on track and terrible everywhere else. 

This. I have one in the driveway that hasn't been driven in months because nobody in the family likes driving it on the street. It will be going on the chopping block soon. 

I went to a Mustang. 

The BMW 128i is great fun and can easily be had under $10k.  I loved mine.  No idea how competitive it would be in autocross but it checks all the street driver and DW boxes very well.  But that's with the manual, I never drove the automatic.

My daily driver is a S550 Mustang convertible. I like it a lot better for freeway use and it is easier to get in and out of than my other cars. If you stretch the budget a little you could get the ecoboost for $14K to $16K. It would probably be cheaper to maintain than any kind of Porsche. I did keep the NA Miata as a track car, and because I couldn't bear to sell it, but after the Mustang it seems like a very tight fit. I have autocrossed the Mustang and it isn't that bad for it's size. The Mustang is much better for long trips.