In reply to mad_machine:
Because we can actually afford to own these....
I vote Gremlin.
16vCorey wrote:Javelin wrote: The early ones came with a VW/Audi 2.0 (is that the same one that was in the 924, because if so my brain has some seriously stupid ideas...)Yep, the very same one. I don't think the VW/Audi/924 2.0L has the same bell housing as the Porsche 2.5L though. I'm thinking it shares it's pattern with the Audi 5cyl, but I'm not positive. I say go for the Audi 5cyl 20v DOHC 2.2L turbo in an AWD Spirit Kammback rally car.
I hate you soooooooooooo much...
(Goes to CL to find an Audi 5-Cyl and a Spirit Kammback...)
didn't some chrysler products also use the 924 block? I recall working on a g/fs car and seeing the vw/audi emblem on the block. It was not the omni, it was a sleeker coupe'
I'd imagine the Gremlin is more usable in today's traffic and would love to own one, but I'd still rather have the fat chick Beetle. Endless opportunities for awesome, there.
fast_eddie_72 wrote: This is a question? Beetle, no doubt. Something along these lines works just fine for me.
Niiiiiiiiiiice!
I've had a complete turnaround on air-cooleds. Growing up in Berkeley it was the consumate slow hippiemobile and I loathed them. Now I see it as a stylish platform for all sorts of modification and mayhem!
What's unfortunate is that veedub culture appears to be a seperate species from vintage car folks. I see fast ones in the magazines, but never on the streets.
Make mine a 13b-powered ghia!
Otto! There's a Gremlin on the side of the bus!
As much as I like air cooled Bugs, I vote Gremlin. And like the idea of a later AMC based 2.5 swapped into one. I'd grab one from a '90's Wrangler or Dakota with the multiport injection.
The engineering of the Beetle design was finalized in 1939, I think. While there were updates over the years, most people won't spot the differences between and 1956 and a 1976 model. So here we are, more than SEVENTY YEARS since the car was engineered, and more than thirty-five years after production (for the U.S.) stopped, and some are still being used as DDs. Wow. Even here in the un-rusty Southwest it's difficult to find a 1976 or older car used as a DD. Yet you still see beetles on the road, and I don't mean garage queens, just DDs. My worthless opinion is that the Beetle, when considered in the context of when it was engineered, is the best engineered car of all time. Yep, I said it and I'll stand by it.
The beetle also went on to sire an entire tribe of neat cars: Karman Ghia, 356, VW Bus, and I would include the 914 as a descendent. [911s were philosophically related but were a big change from an engineering standpoint. I know, both air-cooled, rear-engined and torsion bars, but still, the 911 was a big step.]
I love the beetle's simplicity as well as its' honesty. It has great mechanical feel. Mine broke down but never stranded me. It also hauled my life halfway across the country to college. This was long before I know how to work on cars so I would take it to the VW shop in town. It was a game to see how much change I would get back from a $20 after having repairs made. I had a electric heater blower installed and it would melt the soles of my shoes if I wasn't careful, even in midwestern winters. It was the car that taught me to heel-and-toe. Wow, it was fun. Bought it for $1,000, and sold it for a $1,000. Only major work done was convert from generator to alternator. Which I seem to remember was less than $200 (back in the day).
Gremlin? Like, an AMC? Is this a joke? No contest. KTO on the first punch.
Beetle!
In reply to DWNSHFT:
Now what percentage of Beetle's are still on the road compared to the original production. That is far more telling then the total number.
It's not like the Gremlin/Hornet didn't come from a strong background (actually based on the small Rambler American platform) or spawn many models selling thousands of units worldwide (Concord, Eagle, SX/4, Spirit, Hornet) including various engineering triumphs (first sport wagon, first AWD car, first T5, etc). Not to mention the performance pedigree (NHRA Pro Stock and Sportsman ranks, SCCA Pro and Club Racing, SCCA Pro Rally, 24Hrs of Nurburgring, just to name a few).
The humble Gremmy is far more than you give it credit for...
didn't some chrysler products also use the 924 block? I recall working on a g/fs car and seeing the vw/audi emblem on the block. It was not the omni, it was a sleeker coupe'
Early (~79-83) 2dr L-bodies (charger, turismo, 024, tc3, etc) used a 1.7L vw 8v motor.
Javelin wrote: My memory is fuzzy, but I think you could have gotten the 2.5 in the Spirit Kammback, which is a Spirit nose on a Gremlin body with long windows. (AMC got bizarre in it's parts-mashing at the end): The early ones came with a VW/Audi 2.0 (is that the same one that was in the 924, because if so my brain has some seriously stupid ideas...)
Then this will blow your mind: It used a 4 speed designed by Ford. The Ford of Germany's Type E, also called the Rocket, and is the 4 speed version of the Type 9 in the XR4ti. So you could stick a bellhousing from VW engined AMC into a Merkur and be able to put in some VW related engine with factory parts. (I don't know VW bellhousing patterings, would a 2.0t match or VR6 or something)
Jeez... I owned a 72 standard Type 1 Beetle. Drove the beans out of that poor car... And my mother had a 1976 Gremlin. 258 auto trans. manual steering, manual windows, no A/C. Am radio. The fit and finish on the Gremlin was poor.... But it would spin a (1) tire!
I would still go with a Bug.. But not a stock one...
This has been a tough fight.. discounting the posts where I can't really tell who wants what.. we are looking at 13 for the beetle and 12 for the Gremlin so far...
y'know the Gremlin gets beat up consistently for it's styling. I kinda like the Gremlin's stying, but I always liked the Hornet better. Bugs, on the other hand, I have pretty much always despised (although that gunmetal one above is pretty nifty). Never driven either so I can't say my vote counts for anything, but I'd have to take a V8 front/rear over a flat four rear/rear every time.
I can't believe the gremlin was declared victor.
I grew up building cars like this one with my dad.
I don't remember a part of my youth that didn't have a few dozen aircooleds in it. Much like Javelin and his AMC background, I can't fathom why anyone would choose the other option.
I have owned an AMC the Gremlin was based on. A 63 Rambler American and I would still take the bug every time.
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