It is all good they have caution tape on the concrete abutment rite?
It is all good they have caution tape on the concrete abutment rite?
In reply to dean1484:
Come on, safety first, you're not against safety are you 
I suspect there are some injuries - if you crash enough cars, someone's going to whack their noggin. But if the speeds are slow enough due to difficult roads, life is a lot easier. Still, I'll bet there have been a few concussions.
I was once at a private track day at Waterford Hills held by (ONE OF THE MAJOR US CAR MAGAZINES) which was basically just "we got a bunch of cars from the manufacturers, let's give all the office staff a chance to try them out". Helmets were banned by the chief editor, figuring that they would encourage risk. So, to recap: inexperienced office staff in high performance cars (911, supercharged Exige, MS3, etc) on a rough track with no instructors or safety gear. Luckily, also no red mist so there were no accidents.
Personally, I was driving a Westfield on race tires. Helmet firmly on.
In reply to Keith Tanner:
I'm sure there are some injuries, but with the legal situation over there being what it is, if people were really getting injured all the time it would have been banned long ago. My point is just that I believe there is a massive over reaction to roll bars in road cars over here.
Also I like posting pics of Road Rally cars
There's definitely a difference in safety attitudes - the standard "roll bars" seen on Westfields and Exocets in the UK are either terrifying or laughable, depending on how you look at it.
Almost all the Miatas at FM have roll bars in them, but one of the staff did get in an accident years ago on the street and really rang his bell on the bar. He doesn't show up in any statistics, but he's sure not a fan of them in street cars.
Keith Tanner wrote: There's definitely a difference in safety attitudes - the standard "roll bars" seen on Westfields and Exocets in the UK are either terrifying or laughable, depending on how you look at it. Almost all the Miatas at FM have roll bars in them, but one of the staff did get in an accident years ago on the street and really rang his bell on the bar. He doesn't show up in any statistics, but he's sure not a fan of them in street cars.
Funny story about Westfield 'roll bars' For the road going classes in Sprints and Hillclimbs in the UK, you don't have to have a roll bar/cage fitted. But if you do, it has to be to MSA specs. People have turned up at Hillclimbs with the standard 'roll bar' (which I agree is next to useless) and failed tech because it wasn't up to spec. They then unbolted the 'roll bar' and passed tech to race!!!
For those not in the know, the standard Westfield roll bar is just a thinish wall bar, no diagonal, no front or rear stays jsut a basic bar bolted to the top of the chassis which would probably fold over if you tried to sit on it.
Standard roll bar on a Westfield. No front or rear support, no diagonal and way too low.
Bolted to a single vertical stud on each side, I think it's about 8 mm. I'd be hesitant to use it to push the car around the shop.
I think I need to clarify, I seem to be coming off like an anti-safety prick. I’m really not.
I’m not saying that we should have events like this here in North America. I’m not saying that everyone should have a full cage and harnesses in their street car.
My point is more for people who have roll bars in Miata’s, or a rear bar in a project car like irish44J’s E30. Many people on here and other sites claim things like that are not safe and you will crack your head in any type of incident. I disagree and point to things like new Jeep Wranglers and British road rallies as proof that there are thousands of people running cars with roll bars/cages in without massive numbers of injuries, that’s all.
I really don't know what it is with this country... I mean, the lawyers have some blame in making risk too expensive certainly but someone called them in the first place.
I hate to start a paragraph with "When I was a kid" but it's applicable. When I was a kid things here were very much like things in italy or mexico and all the other places I've been where people are riding scooters like maniacs. I've got friends from Denmark who are smart sensible people in their mid-50s who think nothing of ice climbing for fun. There was a time when we here in the US rode mini & BMX bikes without helmets. Skied without helmets. Played profession al hockey ... without helmets. We rode in the back of the pickup on hot summer days. Played with bows and arrows. Bumper rides in the snow. I'm sure I can find a pic of me 15' in the air on a bicycle sans helmet or out in the middle of a lake floating on my back with no preserver. We explored caves (read: abandoned coal mines). Roller skated down steep hills. Climbed stuff because it was there.
I wonder what/when the impulse to protect ourselves to the point of insanity took hold. What event happened in the late 70s or early 80s that made our well being so precious no adventure was worth damaging it?
I don't think we are better off. A whole society with no sense of adventure, man, we can spare a few kids to avoid that fate... right?
In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker:
Well said, and children are easy and fun to make.
In reply to GPS: QFT!!
What happened is that people did get hurt. Pro hockey players were getting their eggs scrambled. People got killed skiing. People fell out of pickup trucks.
There's a happy medium, though. Putting helmets on hockey players is a simple way to avoid a bunch of damaged hockey players. Ski helmets don't just keep your brains on the inside, they're actually toasty warm. Low effort, high return.
Swimming without a lifejacket, ice climbing, roller skating down steep hills - that stuff's still going on. No change there. Exploring abandoned coal mines has never been a good plan.
I agree that there's definitely a culture of fear and it's amplified by everyone having a voice, with the most alarmist voices getting the most attention. Some local parents are afraid that posting pictures of their children online will allow predators to pick out their location with geotagging and come steal the children. Seriously, drive down the block - it's dead easy to figure out which houses have kids in them. Sounds like the sort of thing that came out of a mommy blog. I shudder to see how my sister shelters her kids, who are growing up in the same neighbourhood we did. If I lived 2000 miles closer, it would be my job to expose them to danger.
Those video's were awesome. I turned the volume up and am pretty sure I heard the navigator say "200 over crest, then 300 to death" or something like that 
I'm pretty sure driving a caged car on the street, like I did for a couple years, is safer than riding a motorcycle, let along riding a motorcycle without a helmet.
Then there's this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6Thomd4BQg
They just have a different view towards safety over there. That or they're much shorter and less likely to bash their noggins on things.
Keith Tanner wrote: Ski helmets don't just keep your brains on the inside, they're actually toasty warm. Low effort, high return.
Big change in technology too. I tried a ski helmet in the mid 90's. It was horrible, pressure points that gave me a headache after 30 mins and no draft protection. About four years ago I tried a modern one after a friends kid landed on his head. Warm, comfortable, vents to regulate your temp. All in all awesome and I will never Ski or Board again without one.
Cactus wrote: Then there's this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6Thomd4BQg They just have a different view towards safety over there. That or they're much shorter and less likely to bash their noggins on things.
Two things about that. First that vid it at least 25 years old, and it's on the Ring while open to the public. Second, It's a public toll road where all traffic laws have to be obeyed, just with no speed limit. I don't know if you're even allowed to wear a helmet in cars.
Two more points:
Are the people driving unhelmeted in caged cars wearing full safety harnesses or just the OE 3-point belts that allow the upper torso to move around by design? One of these is road legal in the US and one is not.
I know of one prominent rally driver in North America who retired because of cumulative brain injury.
Every time someone posts arally video I end up spending two hours on YouTube, and then two more hours looking for something to build into a RWD road rally car. STOP IT !!!
Knurled wrote: Two more points: Are the people driving unhelmeted in caged cars wearing full safety harnesses or just the OE 3-point belts that allow the upper torso to move around by design? One of these is road legal in the US and one is not. I know of one prominent rally driver in North America who retired because of cumulative brain injury.
Both on most cases, one or the other in some.
I've never understood why people get so bent out of shape about harnesses. When I was younger and dumber I drove on the street with harnesses. Go to any rally in this country and on the transits between stages both the driver and co driver have harnesses on. Has anyone ever got a ticket for harnesses on the street? Every se7en I've seen in this country has 4/5/6 point harnesses in it on the street as well
Ever watch Hornet racing at your local oval? I watched some schmuck get run into the wall in Penticton one night and when he hit his helmet came flying out of the car. They stopped the race so he could hop out in his jeans and sneakers to grab it and put it back on his head and continue racing....
pilotbraden wrote: children are easy and fun to make.
Quote for the win!
It seems like in europe they have more car freedom than America. I can get almost anything I want to drive there legally now if I lived there and there are so many events where I can just go do a track day or race.
You'll need to log in to post.
