And now for a thread that everyone love......Mini, 350z or RX8 for daily

racerdave600 wrote:

Bobzilla wrote:

GlennS wrote: Lease or plan on selling a mini before it's warranty runs out. If my sample size of one is indicative of maintenance costs then they are very expensive to own.

Your sample size is spot on from what I've seen.

I disagree with that. Between mine and 3 friends with MINIs, ('06 S, '09, '05S, and '11S) they have all been pretty reliable. Mine and the '09 in particular have been stellar. The '11 had a flywheel issue and a water pump, but other than that, not much.

Now, I'm no master tech, but a flywheel and waterpump seem to be major components to have a problem with for a 2 year old car. I've seen close to a dozen come through the shop as either trade ins or auction cars. All of them have something that ends up sending them back to auction. Friends that have had them have had popped superchargers, head gaskets, p/s issues, cooling issues etc.

Don't get me wrong, I like driving them. I just couldn't afford to own them like my cheap Korean cars (10+ years and 200k miles).

I’ve been daily driving my RX-8 since I bought it new in 2005 and I currently have 205,000 miles on it.

I did blow up the engine at 85,000 miles (which Mazda replaced with a remanufactured engine for free) but I suspect that was due to a poor front end repair job that caused cooling issues.

My long term average is 21.4 mpg (85% highway, typically with passenger(s), cruise around 80 mph indicated, California so lots of AC).

Clearly not good but I wouldn’t say terrible. You’ve got four usable seats, rear wheel drive, and a 0-60 time of 5.7 seconds all executed on just 3,029 tossable pounds.

I think the best piston comp. would be a 2005 BMW 325 ci 5-speed which according to the Googles, gets 18 city / 27 highway. That comes to 25.65 @ 85% highway. So, even ignoring that I’m using real world numbers with speeding and such, the RX-8 penalty is 77.45 gallons per 10,000 miles driven. Even with super high California gas prices, that’s $340 dollars per 10,000 miles.

People are hyper sensitive to fuel expenses because they’re so apparent and constant but money is money and the total cost of operating a RX-8 is actually a real bargain considering what you get.

Think about it, a fancy xenon headlight system replacement could cover half a decade’s worth of the RX-8’s millage deficiency.

In reply to RX Reven':

And what's the oil cost?

Bobzilla wrote: Now, I'm no master tech, but a flywheel and waterpump seem to be major components to have a problem with for a 2 year old car.

But that kinda crap happens to cars of every brand and model.

If you based car buying decisions on a hand full of internet bullsh1t, you'd never buy anything.

I've driven both the RX8 and the 350Z. I would choose the Z out of those two because of the torque and I like the sounds it makes. I have not driven a MINI so I can't really give a opinion of it other than I like the looks.

Out of those three 350Z wins. Although I may try to get a G35 for the better interior for a daily driver.

I've owned both a 350Z and an RX-8. I think I'm one of the few who like the Z better.

RX-8 is more practical from a space standpoint. You can fit adults in the back in a pinch. A newborn pop-out seat works in the back. Fuel mileage sucks, especially for the power you get from it. Ride quality is better than the Z. Handling is better than the Z.

350Z has more power and better mileage. While the strut bar is a limitation in the back, I still managed to move quite a bit of stuff in it. It felt more special than the RX-8

I always itched to just drive the Z. I don't have the same affection for the Mazda.

Ian F wrote:

Bobzilla wrote: Now, I'm no master tech, but a flywheel and waterpump seem to be major components to have a problem with for a 2 year old car.

But that kinda crap happens to cars of every brand and model. If you based car buying decisions on a hand full of internet bullsh1t, you'd never buy anything.

What about the dozen plus I've seen first hand? Or the friends with similar experiences? Are those all "bullE36 M3" too? Or is it "anything that doesn't fit my experience is bullE36 M3"?

Out of these three choices I like driving the RX-8 best, followed by Mini S (Supercharged)-- then Z.

However, when we had an RX-8 press car I drove it for over 500 miles and averaged 15mpg. It also drinks premium which made it more painful. It's a shame, as I really enjoyed the car--- Keep in mind, about 1/2 of that driving was at a steady state on the highway. You can get decent mileage in one I guess if you keep the RPMs down....but what fun is that?

My father's Mini S (supercharged) has been reliable over the 60K miles he's had it. Early on it had a radio malfunction that was repaired under warranty, his battery also went kaput, but the car is an 04, so that's to be expected. No other problems so far.

Although powerful, the 350Z doesn't inspire me the way the others do. I couldn't blame anyone for wanting one, it just isn't for me. It could be the horrid 3/4 visibility, the seats (which are painful for me), or the engine drone. (although some folks love the sound of the VQ--- I'm not one of them) It would likely be the least expensive to keep (and fastest) of these choices.

The Genesis Coupe is an interesting choice, as I did like them when new. The V6 is less sports car, and more G35 competitor, while the turbo 4 feels lighter on it's feet. I haven't had a chance to drive the revamped Genesis coupes yet though. I'd be a bit wary of interior quality though. Most Hyundai interiors I've seen don't age very well. (creaks and squeaks from poor fitting pieces, or poor quality materials)

If your commute is short and the fuel mileage doesn't bother you----- go RX-8 all the way. The depreciation on these is so drastic they tempt me......horrid mileage and all.

350Z. It's the only one that makes my wiggly bits tingle when I see one. My long term happiness with cars is pretty dependent on that feeling.

You should be able to get a GTO for that kind of money. Also perhaps a G35, butwith than 85k miles. Might even find a nice enough C5 Corvette, which has much more trunk space than my Miata did as long as you get the coupe.

I really want the RX8 but do not know how big of a commute I will have. So, I guess it is out, especially since it takes premium. My Legacy gets around 30 mpg with regular. Once things get better financially I forsee a LS1 RX8 in my future

I am still concerned with the reliability of the Mini, I am not afraid to fix stuff as long as it will not leave me stranded. Are there upgrades that can be made to minimize the failure areas. I know of the transmission issues but what else usually goes wrong?

I do like the sound of the 350z, but something is stopping me from pulling the trigger on it. I am going back to the drawing board. 350z is still a contender as is a mustang, Gen Coupe, and anything else I can think of that is fun to drive with better than 20 mpg that I can drive daily.

spear322 wrote: I do like the sound of the 350z, but something is stopping me from pulling the trigger on it.

The sound is trickery, so it sounds good initially, but eventually your mind rejects it. One of the reasons why I don't like it, it is trying too hard.

How bad are e46 maintenance wise vs the Mini? If there is not that big of a difference I may look into them as well.

C5 could be fun, but I would definitely end up with a ticket or 10.

Bobzilla wrote:

racerdave600 wrote:

Bobzilla wrote:

GlennS wrote: Lease or plan on selling a mini before it's warranty runs out. If my sample size of one is indicative of maintenance costs then they are very expensive to own.

Your sample size is spot on from what I've seen.

I disagree with that. Between mine and 3 friends with MINIs, ('06 S, '09, '05S, and '11S) they have all been pretty reliable. Mine and the '09 in particular have been stellar. The '11 had a flywheel issue and a water pump, but other than that, not much.

Now, I'm no master tech, but a flywheel and waterpump seem to be major components to have a problem with for a 2 year old car. I've seen close to a dozen come through the shop as either trade ins or auction cars. All of them have something that ends up sending them back to auction. Friends that have had them have had popped superchargers, head gaskets, p/s issues, cooling issues etc. Don't get me wrong, I like driving them. I just couldn't afford to own them like my cheap Korean cars (10+ years and 200k miles).

You are kidding me, right? Every car I've ever seen with a dual mass flywheel has issues. My 370 with 24k miles is even starting to make noise. Oh, the '11 had 80k miles on it when it was replaced. And once again, the problems you list have never been an issue for me or anyone I have known with a MINI. Most of this probably stems from a few cars that get highlighted and then told over and over again on the internet. Sure it's not an Accord, but it doesn't drive like one either. And I'm sure you get quite a few poorly maintained cars flow through the dealership.

However, if you run down the list of potential problems, it's identical to most BMW products that other people never consider a problem. Such as the radiator, water pump, etc. Hell, I've even seen people on here say the frame ripping on E36 cars is nothing. If that happened to a MINI the world would stop turning. If you maintain one properly, I still say they are not much of an issue to own.

To answer spear322, I would say the E46 would be very similar to a MINI in terms of maintenance and upkeep. They are more complex, so you have that to worry about, but I don't think they drive nearly as well, M3 excluded. If you want something nicer however, the interiors are better and they are more comfortable.

In reply to racerdave600:

Read this VERY carefully. Please. this isn't "internet rumor". These aren't "so and so said". these are cares THROUGH OUR SHOP. These are personal friends with mini's that have had these types of issues.

I've got a E36 M3ty dual mass on the Forte. Hate it. Feels terrible. But it's quiet and other than the terrible feel works like designed. I'm at 46k miles now with the last 28k being extremely rough.

The issues, like the issues with the BMW's, are what KEEP me from buying one. I don't consider complete cooling system replacements, frames tearing or control arms falling apart on a regular basis to be "normal". That is a serious design issue.

I vote S2000. Just test drive one. You know you want to. The trunk is actually quite large. My second vote is for Mazdaspeed 3 as the more reliable larger version of the MINI.

Here's what I know. You've ranked two of the most brilliant chassis' I've ever driven in the rx8 and the Cooper S. I own an r53/supercharged, it has 130k on it, and it's sitting in my parking lot with a spun bearing. I do NOT own an rx8 and I'm afraid to. The 350z never really impressed me, although I did scare a dealer guy once with his car... he didn't know it could do that. All in, I currently own an ms3, and I'd say... that. More power than the others (save the 350), handles decent, 4 real doors, decent MPG, pretty reliable.

In reply to Bobzilla:

You just invalidated your own argument. "Through our shop". Working at a shop will show you the worst of every car. And my views are not "my experience". I don't own a MINI. My ex-g/f does. I've just been around them since 2003. I've torn them apart and put them back together again so many times I've lost count. I know dozens and dozens of owners. Some have had problems with their cars. Some haven't. But their love for the car and community around it trumps the issues most of the time. Many of them are on their 3rd or 4th MINI. Are they perfect cars? Hell no. My '03 Jetta has been more trouble-free than her '03 MCS, despite having 3X the miles. But you'll likely pry the keys for that car from her cold, dead fingers. 40 years from now, she'll be 80+ years old and driving that car on nice days. Probably with 8 million coats of Zaino by then.

The MINI really is a British car to the core and seems to instill that same passion, despite the BMW link. For many, the car transcends logic and turns into an obsession. That obsession developed almost instantly the moment they hit the roads. That's what keeps people buying them. What makes people keep them running.

On your budget, I'd pick "none of the above" and find a nice Cobalt SS or MS3; I only throw them into the mix because they're a better mini than the mini (That's all subjective I know, but you're asking for opinions....).

Not a huge fan of the Cobalt.

The MS3 is out of my price range for one that does not have the number of miles I am looking for. I am expanding my search so I may find one. (The closest MS3 to me is 367 Miles away that meets my criteria)

I have driven s2000 and do like them, but the price for one is still to high and all the ones I have seen have not been cared for at all.

I am going to go to a couple stealers..I mean dealers tomorrow and go for some test drives. Hopefully one of each of the cars suggested.

I would say Mini, RX8 and 350Z in that order.........or better yet as others have suggested the MS3 which would solve all your concerns except maybe your budget.

By the way, good answer by Ian F a couple of posts up. Certain cars like Minis, Porsches, BMWs and even Subarus (WRX/STi) sometimes get bad reps but overall the personality, soul and fun factor far outweigh the reliability issues. Now I am not suggesting that problems somehow make the car more endearing because they don't but they are also not just appliances so they are more complicated and maybe more prone to issues. By the way, I have had five Subarus and for me they have been dead nuts reliable and fun.

If the OP wasn't confused to start with he sure will be now!

I love my RX8 massively, Yes the MPG sucks, it does go through about a quart of oil between 1500-2500 miles (depends how hard it has been driven) But the long distance travel of these and the sheer communicative (read telepathic) handling is second to none!!!

In saying this i did trade my MS3 for this car (now most will say this is backwards as hell but i usually tell them they suck at life and need to fornicate themselves with an iron stick) and i really do miss the hell out of that car for downright power and mileage when you needed it. Perfect world i would have the MS3 as a daily/rally-x beast and the RX as a weekend driver/autocrosser.

In reply to JtspellS:

It's hilarious to me that the FWD, 5 door of the Mazda family is the one you miss for "downright power" when compared to their pure sports car. It has silly power delivery. Hit the loud pedal in 6th and you are still going to go somewhere. And quickly at that.

accordionfolder wrote: In reply to JtspellS: It's hilarious to me that the FWD, 5 door of the Mazda family is the one you miss for "downright power" when compared to their pure sports car. It has silly power delivery. Hit the loud pedal in 6th and you are still going to go somewhere. And quickly at that.

I guess im not THAT corrupt by power then am i?

And its not that hard to downshift.

Or i could be batE36 M3 crazy too, it sounds more likely

JtspellS wrote:

accordionfolder wrote: In reply to JtspellS: It's hilarious to me that the FWD, 5 door of the Mazda family is the one you miss for "downright power" when compared to their pure sports car. It has silly power delivery. Hit the loud pedal in 6th and you are still going to go somewhere. And quickly at that.

I guess im not THAT corrupt by power then am i? And its not that hard to downshift. Or i could be batE36 M3 crazy too, it sounds more likely

Power absolutely corrupts, and corrupts absolutely. I will be forever ruined by the delivery of my ms3.