Another RatRod for you to enjoy

stuart in mn wrote:

Woody wrote: There's a big difference between a Rat Rod and an old piece of crap.

Actually, I think they're the same thing...a rat rod generally refers to a car that was thrown together with poor workmanship and not much style (except for a lot of iron crosses and rats painted everywhere.) Now, a traditional hot rod may be weathered and rusty, but it's built to be safe and reliable and isn't just a bunch of parts tacked together in a random fashion.

I thought most of the people from that scene used "traditional" as a shorthand for "built with exactly the same parts in exactly the same manner as was done back in the day."

I'd rock it.

I've heard "traditional hot rod" used to describe the all-custom, tons-of-billet, chrome and 20-coat paint job type of rod that is popular with rich white guys who rarely do their own work.

For the others as you describe, I've heard the terms "historic" rod or "period correct" rod.

I will take a few pics this next weekend. there is a twin turbo rat rod truck at Donut Derelicts every week.

Man, this a REALLY tough crowd...My take on the whole 'rat-rod' thing is that some builders have gone to incredible lengths to make a car appear to be a POS. There's a guy in Billings who built one with a Cummins 6BT, and he used a few pieces off a combine as 'detail' bits and bobs. The thing runs like nobody's business, but it looks awful. And the 'detail' bits just are out of place...they have no function other than to cause the onlooker to say...WTF??? It's basically just messy. I WOULD like the engine, though. If 'rat-rod' means 'like they built in the olden days', then, they've missed the point. The guys back in the day did the best they could with what they had, and they did their best to at least make it look good. THESE things can't even manage that.

people get too caught up in labels.. the first cars to be called "rat rods" were true low dollar builds made out of whatever the builder had laying around or could get cheap enough. they weren't pretty, but they got the job done. having your car called a "rat rod" was an insult at first, then became a compliment.

over time, "purists" started saying that a true "rat rod" type build had to be some sort of a period correct time capsule- nothing newer than a flathead under the hood, for example. this was right around the same time that 45 year old grown ups were trying to relive their teenage years in the early 60's as seen thru rose colored glasses that make everything from "back then" better than everything today.

these days, people that build cars that would have been called a "rat rod" 20 years ago hate the term "rat rod" and call them something stupid like "traditional rods" or whatever. these are the 30 year old guys with greased back hair and too many tattoos that build their cars to look like crap with flathead power despite having the talent to do it better and access to more modern parts. i've heard tales of $10k paint jobs on "rat rod" builds that are made to look like crap on purpose, and fake rust painted onto fiberglass '32 Ford body shells to make it look more authentic..

i've got a "how to build a rat rod" dvd that i bought for $3 at Wal Mart where the guy says to turn up the heat on the welder when welding body panels to blow thru and make the welds look like E36 M3 on purpose. there was some good fabrication on that dvd, but stuff like that made me realize why Wal Mart had it in the bargain bin..

the "thing" in the first post of this thread isn't a "rat rod" in any sense of the word- it's someone's unique vision of what they think would be a cool hot rod with flat black paint and the generic "rat rod" label.

i want to build a car that would be considered a "rat rod" by most people- i'm looking for a dirt cheap '30 Model A 5 window body and frame to build a car that's isn't necessarily pretty, but fast and fun to drive. but i will not stick with stupid rules about what it needs to be powered by or what it looks like- that fuel injected 94 LT1 on the engine stand backed by that 700r4 under the bench would be a good free powertrain, since i've got them and have no money tied into them. if ican't use the LT1 (it might go in my Camaro before then..), i will put a new crank in the 350 i've got in the corner and put some sort of a junkyard 4 speed trans behind it.

brakes will probably be late model Vette, since rotors and calipers are cheap at NAPA, and those late 80's Monte Carlo SS aluminum wheels piled up in the corner would work quite nicely for a car like that.

if it ever gets built, it will probably look like crap because i'm not a paint and body guy and honestly i don't care what it looks like as long as it's reliable, fast, safe, and fun.

i hate labels.

if you build something with what you have and do the best you can do it is a hot rod plain and simple. traditional? my ass, nobody in the 50's took a 40 something truck cab, slammed it on a frame with a 32 grille, cut the frame off and put the rear axle right behind the cab and stuck spiderwebs all over it. rat rod? maybe some - the guys without the skills build these or the guys who intentionally do stuff hokey or wrong to make it look crappy. and those guys really have no business building a car because i've seen so many unsafe things i would never want to be on the road around them.

some guy called my 54 a rat rod because i have not had the money to do the body and paint work yet so it is somewhat deteriorated and has some visible rust. i almost hit him.

my 40 pickup is rusty right now, i pulled it off a farm. the bed is shortened, and it has no fenders or hood. it's as far from a "rat rod" as i can get. no iron crosses, no spiderwebs, no intentional booger welds, no iffy things or tractor parts used as suspension. it's rolling on a modified(safely with nice welds) stock car chassis with tubular everything, big brakes, and a 3 link. it's going to handle like it has been glued to the ground. when i find one more wheel it'll have 275's all around. and while it is probably "wrong" by all "traditional" standards, it's probably going to wind up with a modern drivetrain.

this does give me an idea to find an old 40s pickup and make it into a wrecker hotrod.

I always loved the details that go into them.

I would definatly make it look weathered and worn.. if I found the right body, it would not even need to be repainted.

mad_machine wrote: I would definatly make it look weathered and worn.. if I found the right body, it would not even need to be repainted.

See, that's it in a nutshell. If you find the right body with genuine patina, then don't you dare paint it. But if you would have to paint it badly on purpose to make it look like a POS, don't you dare fake it.

It's all about the integrity. If you purposely do E36 M3ty work and spend huge amounts of time and money to make it look like you don't give a E36 M3, you (and the project) have zero integrity.

"Rat Rod" clearly covers a lot of territory. The vehicle in question isn't my cup of tea, but it's reasonably well executed, and some people dig it. So all power.

now the pet peeve: I can't condone anything that isn't fundamentally safe. (Brakes, seatbelts, non-evil handling) and sometimes "rat rod" equals "ready for the crusher".

I guess my pet peeve about Rat Rods/Traditional Hot Rods is that often times the young guys( 20's 30's or older) that build them represent them to be "exactly how they built hot rods in the 50's and 60's" which couldn't be further from the truth. I've talked to some that have been arguementative and speak as if they were an authority of the car culture back then.

Being in my 60's many of my friends and myself built cars during that era. Sure there were cars the body work was not complete or in primer but not because they were intended to look like that. Most of the cars were "works in progress" and used daily. Very few people had the luxury of having a "project car" stored away in a shop some place unless it was a dedicated race car. Cars were finished as time and money permitted but were eventually finished. I might add some better then others. I don't recall ever seeing what might be called a rat rod in the 60's as most of the guys would have been to embarrased to be seen in it.

I often frequent the HAMB website and marvel at the vision, fabrication skills and dedication many of those guys have of preserving hot rod as they used to be. However, building a hot rod (or any car)is about what makes the builder happy not building something just so it will get approval from others.

Rat Rods are not my cup of tea but if it makes the builder happy so be it as long as it doesn't put others in danger on the road.