READ FIRST---I don't "need" a diesel truck. But I WANT one. I like the way they sound, love the way they pull, and they for certain get better MPG than a comparable 3/4 4x4 gas truck. So, with that out of the way...
I am more or less a GM truck guy. But used Duramax trucks around here command a premium. I'm likely going to sell my 6.0 gas Chevy extended cab and need to replace it with a crew cab (more kid and dog space needed)
The 2003-2007 Fords are arguably a better truck, and the crew cabs are significantly more roomy than the GM twins. Also, the 6.0's can be had many times for 1/2 of what the GM Duramax trucks sell for.
From what I've read, once the head studs/gaskets are upgraded, and the EGR is deleted (yes I can get away with that where I live) and oil cooler issues are upgraded to aftermarket solutions, and OCI's are short, and all filters are changed regularly, they are a very good powertrain. BTW, it seems pretty easy to find trucks around here that have the the EGR delete done, and several have the ARP head studs done as well. This truck will not be a daily driver, but will see good use in the summer pulling toys and my 5th wheel, and will see use in the winter when the snow is too much for my G35 coupe on good winter tires.
It looks like I can likely get a decent one for $8-$10k, less if I get over the 250,000km mark.
Can anybody confirm or refute my assumptions about these particular trucks based on real experience?
Sure, they are great trucks if all of those modifications are done.
Go tally up the grand total to pay someone to do all those modifications and get back to us. You'll realize why the trucks are so cheap (because they usually haven't had all of that stuff done).
There is a reason I bought a dmax with injectors that had been changed and 400k kms on it versus the kajillions of 6.0L powerstrokes for cheap. Its not an internet thing, they really do have their issues and should be avoided unless already fixed. It isn't economically feasible to do the work now with such little value, you'll never see the money back.
Personally, if dead set on a Ford, you should be able to find a 7.3L powerstroke with under 300k kms on it for $10k or less. I found some really nice ones in that price range. You say personal experience, well, I haven't owned a 6.0L myself, but I know plenty of people who have, and its always been the same thing. Massive amounts of $$$. Once they are fixed, they are GREAT trucks.
In reply to HiTempguy:
I hear what you're saying. Being from Alberta, your opinion is relevant to my search as well.
I believe I would tackle the work myself, as I have a couple friends that are able to assist if I get in over my head, so that brings the cost down to just the parts.
Likely what will end up happening is when I'm ready to pull the trigger, I'll shop for a Ford for $XXXX, and a GM for $XXXX, and not go over what I think is reasonable given the work I have to do to be comfortable with the Ford. Don't misunderstand me, my preference is a 06-07 LBZ, but you know what a good one goes for around here. Especially south of Calgary. EVERYTHING decent right now is heading south to Montana/Idaho/Washington auctions due to the exchange rate.
I found a really nice 07 CC long box GMC with low miles last week. The used car lot it was at (a nice lot in Ft Macleod) was asking 29 freaking grand for it. I made an offer. They said, sorry we're not interested. If it's still here by Sept 10 it goes on a truck south of the border so we really don't need to move on our price.
In reply to Datsun1500:
Agreed, the injectors are pricey.
What all did you need to do for $5000?
I have only owned the 7.3 IDI and 7.3 powerstroke, my friend who was a diesel mechanic owned a 6.0,Dually, highly modified. He had a lot of mods, and was constantly working on it. My experience with diesels are the engines are more reliable than gassers, but the chassis are beat to heck because of all of the abuse and generally having higher mileage.
I had an 05 3/4 with the 6.0. Just traded it in 2 months ago with 115k miles. Total spent on fixes: $400 for an EGR valve.
We traded it in because it was getting reaaaaaaally rusty. Drivetrain was fine. I think we just didn't have it long enough to have an issue.
Replaced it with a 2015 1 ton Ford powerstroke. It's easily 5 times the truck.
Just because you have receipts doesn't mean it's fixed correctly. When it blows a HG, it warped the thin deck head. The warp is always there even after surfacing. And on and on and on.......
The 6.0 is an awesome motor provided YOU can work on it when you need to and you don't need a lift to fix it. And that really go for ANY diesel. If you need a shop to repair it, you can't afford it. Of course parts aren't "cheap", but it isn't a gasser either.
doc_speeder wrote:
I found a really nice 07 CC long box GMC with low miles last week. The used car lot it was at (a nice lot in Ft Macleod) was asking 29 freaking grand for it. I made an offer. They said, sorry we're not interested. If it's still here by Sept 10 it goes on a truck south of the border so we really don't need to move on our price.
I actually made up a spreadsheet comparing the costs to fix all well known (and at some point throughout ownership, guaranteed to need replacing either due to wear and tear or factory problem) deficiencies.
It was no contest. Cummins are the best bet for straight up engine reliability, but the trucks are completely horrid. The 7.3L falls in 1st with the cummins, except it seems that they are either massive overpriced creampuffs or have 500+ kms on them. And having driven my fair share of diesels, pre-2007-ish Cummins and Powerstrokes are HORRID to drive on a regular basis, they are so rough. Dmaxes came next, with the one and only major issue with the early ones being injectors.
Honestly, I would suggest NOT shying away from an early dmax. They get the best mpg, can tow just as much as any of the other trucks, and the injectors are a known issue that while expensive, should only have to be done once if done right (and injectors on a dmax are significantly cheaper than all of the fixes that the Ford's require). I mean, mine is a first model year and there is nothing wrong with it, no factory deficiencies or weaknesses that make me hate the truck. Its a truck that works, end of discussion.
I just can't argue enough for staying away from 6.0L's if they don't have documented proof of all the fixes. They are the proverbial time bomb.
I bought my 2005 6.0 with about 180K miles on the clock as a bank repo so I had no prior knowledge of what repairs were done or not done. It had a fully functional EGR system on it tho. It also had a airraid air filter and a straight pipe exhaust. If you want to see my journey you can check out this thread on the PBB Linky to 6.0 learning curve
If you can do the work yourself its very likely you can come out with a good truck for fair price. My truck just turned over 210K miles on it.
Short list of what to do:
1. Flush the coolant system and install a coolant filter and run the Zerex ELC Red coolant
2. One way or another delete the EGR. I prefer to pull the egr cooler off weld up the ends and put it back on. You are less likely to have exhaust and coolant leaks this way plus its cheap :)
3. Use Rotella T6 engine oil
4. Add 5k to the list price of a used 6.0 (maybe this should of been number one on the list).
5. Check IAC boots for cracks and discoloration.
6. Monitor the engine vitals in some way shape or form when towing. Check the EOT and ECT delta before you buy. I use the Torque app on my android phone with a OBDII bluetooth adapter.
7. Check the Voltage of your FICM, preferably before you buy it. You can use the engine monitor for that or a multimeter.
8. If batteries are weak change them asap, they will kill your FICM.
9. When you are looking at trucks take note if it has the stock rad or a all aluminum aftermarket radiator. The stocker will leak at the seams sooner or later.
10. Run two bottles of REVX through the oil once a year.
Buy a 05-07 truck, they had things from the factory worked out alittle better at that point. If you want to run a tuner the only choice IMO is SCT. What tunes you run is really a matter of taste. I am going to get PHP tunes when i get around to it. I get 17.7 MPG on my daily commute it gets much better on long trips and 20mpg is doable. DO NOT RUN A HIGH HP TUNE WHILE TOWING. Seems like common sense but it happens and thats a good way to blow a head gasket. Have specific questions just let me know. I hope this helps and good luck!
Better yet mine is for sale: Superdooty forsale
We sold my wifes VW, she bought me a motocyle and so now I am selling my truck to buy her a SUV(Cherokee).
My older brother owns www.FPmarine.com. It's a marine parts business primarily dealing with Sea Ray parts. As such, over the years he's done a lot of heavy towing. He's owned two 7.3 Powerstrokes and one 6.0 Liter. The 7.3 trucks were pretty bulletproof, but not nearly as fast as the 6.0. Problem is he had a big problem with the 6.0 (not sure if it was HG, or EGR), and the fix required him to take the entire cab off of the body to fix it. This was not for the fainthearted.
From what I understand, when the 6.0 has been "fixed" they are great trucks. It isn't easy, or cheap to get them there though.
If you are going with a Ford, the 7.3 seems to be the way to go.
ridinwitcj73 wrote:
Better yet mine is for sale: Superdooty forsale
We sold my wifes VW, she bought me a motocyle and so now I am selling my truck to buy her a SUV(Cherokee).
I don't think you are going to get $95,000. That's a little optimistic.
spitfirebill wrote:
ridinwitcj73 wrote:
Better yet mine is for sale: Superdooty forsale
We sold my wifes VW, she bought me a motocyle and so now I am selling my truck to buy her a SUV(Cherokee).
I don't think you are going to get $95,000. That's a little optimistic.
Can't blame a fella for trying. I would consider $9500.
So you're all saying I should stick with my first plan and buy a 6.0 gasser 3/4 ton Chevy and hang a snail on it???lol
In reply to ridinwitcj73:
Hey if you don't ask you won't get it.
I would dig a little deeper and buy a 7.3 if you are in love with everything else Superduty. What it will lack in cool exhaust whistle and pep it will more than make up for with reliability, servicablity, resale, and cost of parts.
Our 2006 F250 6.0 4WD w 3.73:1 5 speed AT has been through 25 states and towed a trailer through 23. It currently has 128K on it. We did the EGR delete, oil cooler and the left bank injectors. We lost 1 mpg loaded and unloaded with the EGR delete. It gets 15.5 average around town and 10.8-11.1 towing a 102" weighing 8-9,000#. It drives great, tows great, sounds great and doesn't squeak. My B-I-L and best buddy bought Chevy's and my other Buddy bought a Dodge with Cummins at same time we bought our F250. They get better MPG. Their trucks squeak, squeak, squeak squeak, squeak. Our does not. The Dodge was sold in favor of a newer Ford. I am very happy with our 6.0 and love driving the truck. Two weeks from now we will jump in the truck and drive to the Challenge in Florida from PA with the trailer. If you are there I would be happy to give you a ride.
Get the Duramax (not the 29k one.) Sure, injectors can be an issue. If you go with LLY or LBZ, much less so. My 2005 has 200k on original injectors.
Plus...Allison transmission. And if you do have to work on anything, you can pull the fender liners and get to just about everything through the wheel wells.
The cab-off as a first step to do just about anything on the big Fords is a turn off.
Thing about a 7.3 is that the transmission is crap. So how is it better if the motor is reliable but you spend the equivalent in transmissions over the years?
bearmtnmartin wrote:
Thing about a 7.3 is that the transmission is crap. So how is it better if the motor is reliable but you spend the equivalent in transmissions over the years?
You can get a 7.3 with a manual transmission.
My 300k stock transmission begs to argue about the autos behind the 7.3s being crap - but it did get a programmer right away, fluid changes on the reg, and spent 99% of its life in lockup running down the freeway.
Ultimately though, get what you want and be happy. I wont even make an "I told you so" post when you are balls deep into a cab removal to fix 7 cracked pistons. 
