Anyone have experience with both the AP2 S2000 and the Lotus Elise? Wisdom requested.

Most people can fit into any car, but it's really a question of whether you like the fit. At 6'1" 185, I recall being bothered a little bit by the offset pedals in the Elise and finding my right leg rubbing a bit on the center tunnel. It's also not easy to get into and out of, not terrible with the top off, but definitely problematic with the top on. Not the sort of thing I personally would take for a short drive, because I'd be thinking about getting in and out, not to mention there is no room to bring anything along in the car.

In reply to Harvey:

I seem to remember the seats weren't all that comfy in the one I sat it, so I don't think I'd want to take one on a long drive either?

roninsoldier83 wrote: Anyone on here have any experience driving/owning both an AP2 S2000 and a Lotus Elise? Thanks in advance! -Brandon

I have owned and driven neither, but this is the internet and I feel like sharing my opinion, so skip this response if you would like.

I am incredibly emotionally attached to the elise. I am 6' 1" and have sat in every one I have been allowed to. It is probably not the car to drive home from the gym after maxing out on leg day, but you can get in it. You won't be able to drive if you are wearing boots. In 2011 I bought a new dodge challenger and it was a wonderful and perfect car for me. However, I could not get over the fact that I paid the same amount of $ for a dodge that elises were trading for at the time. My rational for skipping the lotus is I had street parking only, and I'm pretty sure the elise wouldn't stay watertight if parked outside all year.

I sold the dodge after paying it off, having no problems and realizing it was a perfect vehicle. That emotional bit in the back of my brain however said "it could have been a lotus" every time I looked at it. And that drove me crazy.

This is my actual car, reminding me of my mistake:

I have noticed the market for used elises has climbed. If you are seeing any decent ones trading for 20k or so, they are (in my opinion) behind the curve, and as inexpensive as they will ever be. Or salvage title hiding something. 30k really is the least I would be willing to budget for one. I think their market bottomed out about 5 years ago when you could still buy new ones. Now that they are out of production the selection is limited and people are aware that the value will go up.

My experience with both these vehicles is in my local autocross club. The s2k's seem to be about the same physical size as a c4 corvette. The lotus makes miata's look chubby.

The lotus' have non-toyota a/c units and (imagine this) are prone to failure. This won't be a problem in the honda's.

Oddly enough; at my local club; the (stock)c4 vettes and (stock)s2k's run pretty similar times even though they are classsed differently. I'm sure this varies elsewhere, but seems pertinent.

The gentleman whom brings his lotus however is a site to behold. He modified the suspension and runs slicks, and the way his car changes direction is pure violence. I think recently he supercharged or turbocharged it, and it dosen't run right all the time. But it is something to behold.

My emotions have grown up a little, now I pine for a cayman. Really, that is a nice way of saying I'm less adventurous than I used to be.

I think you have to ask yourself if you have an emotional need for a lotus. If so, the honda will never satisfy. Also, if you get one in nice shape for 20k, pending no crazy economic crash in the future, you will be able to sell it for more. So grab one and re-sell it after you realize it is a little too hard core for you. Then use the profit to buy a supercharger for your s2k.

If you don't have an emotional attachment to the lotus and used p-cars scare you the honda is probably the perfect car for you. They are in such a different class they are hard to compare. But the honda is a wonderful car that is very well built and should last a lifetime.

petegossett wrote: In reply to Harvey: I seem to remember the seats weren't all that comfy in the one I sat it, so I don't think I'd want to take one on a long drive either?

My limited experience of one Exige says the drivers seat is a billion times more comfortsble. One of the only cars I've driven where the passenger is begging to drive so they don't have to sit.

petegossett wrote: In reply to Harvey: I seem to remember the seats weren't all that comfy in the one I sat it, so I don't think I'd want to take one on a long drive either?

I don't recall that it was particularly uncomfortable. The one I drove was my boss' car and he had the touring package, but not the track.

That said, this was literally right after they came here back in 2005, so my memory is fuzzy. I definitely expected it to be stiffer and more uncomfortable over bumps, but it handled things pretty well IIRC.

I seem to recall thinking the ingress/egress and the cramped interior would put me off from having one.

Owning an Elise is a religious experience. You will get more attention than you ever have received in your life(no matter what you might have done in your life) I had an '06 Track model and it was was the greatest experience in my many many car-owing experiences. I still remember cleaning out an upscale pizza place by parking at the front door next to a Maserati.
For the most part, it is a Toyota and can be treated mechanically that way. I drove mine on an almost daily basis and never had a mechanical issue. I say "almost daily" because there were certain limitations: 1)ingress/egress you dont want to do it in dress clothes and your spouse will object to it 2) A/C I have owned aircooled 911's with better AC and just about had to park the car during the months of July/August/September in East Tenn(the guys who owned Elise's in hot climates had several tricks to upgrade the system but it was still marginal 3)salvage titles almost every Elise I looked at had been hit in some form or fashion and it was just a matter of whether the insurance company totalled the car in the process. Body damage can be repaired; chassis damage cannot without specialized tools. Eventually the only Elise available will be salvage titles 4)storage space there is very little and most of it is directly over the exhaust system 5) interior space you had better like your passenger because you will be shoulder to shoulder and cheek to cheek with them. You will have to get permission from large people to change gears or an assault may occur. I gave dollar runs at a charity event and had easily the longest line for passengers but most of them were not pleasant. I did spin out when I looked down at the knee sticking out of a set of very nice holey blue jeans. Ahh, the memories of that car.
After two years, I had had enough and I traded for a 911(It was the pink car that I drove several years to the Rolex) You do need to be a gymnast to get in and out. Being 55yo was not compatible. Most of the surfaces in the Elise were not weight bearing and I either drove the car with the hardtop on or topless; the bikini top was useless. It got great gas mileage and despite what has been written above, the car was damn quick to 60mph(I owned a '04 GTO at the same time and their 0-60 times were identical). It had a bi-polar personality depending on how hard you wanted to flog the car; mine was driven hard. I hated selling the car and have replaced it with '03 MR-2 Spyder which shares many components and design elements. I have focused on getting the chassis up to Elise levels and am just waiting on the excuse and cash flow to swap in a 2ZZ complete the ghetto Lotus experience. Having said all the above, the S2000 is the more mature buying decision but everyone should own a Lotus Elise for at least a few weeks.

That is kind of what I think would happen if I bought an Elise. I'd drive the hell out of it for a year and then get sick of the ingress/egress and general discomfort involved with it and then get rid of it with some regret.

Harvey wrote: That is kind of what I think would happen if I bought an Elise. I'd drive the hell out of it for a year and then get sick of the ingress/egress and general discomfort involved with it and then get rid of it with some regret.

That was pretty much my experience. The lack of functional AC in Florida sealed the decision to sell.

mblommel wrote:

Harvey wrote: That is kind of what I think would happen if I bought an Elise. I'd drive the hell out of it for a year and then get sick of the ingress/egress and general discomfort involved with it and then get rid of it with some regret.

That was pretty much my experience. The lack of functional AC in Florida sealed the decision to sell.

You'd probably break-even, regardless.

I can build you a 2zz/c60 turbo mr-spyder with ohlins etc. for 25k, just saying.

No Elise hate here. If I could have a stable of 3-4 fun card it would absolutely be my go to track toy. I don't know of anything that would better fill that roll for me.

However when I can only have one extra car to fill multiple rolls (weekend cruiser, date night car, autox/track) then I'd go with something more well rounded

For me, the Elise feels special in a way the S2K does not.

However, I'm about the same size as the OP (6'2" ; 220 lbs ; 34" inseam) and I simply do not fit in the car with a helmet. So, it's off the menu for me.

icaneat50eggs wrote: No Elise hate here. If I could have a stable of 3-4 fun card it would absolutely be my go to track toy. I don't know of anything that would better fill that roll for me. However when I can only have one extra car to fill multiple rolls (weekend cruiser, date night car, autox/track) then I'd go with something more well rounded

This is where I end up as well. I need a car that is quiet enough to use for instruction, fast enough to teach race school, road-worthy enough to drive there, large enough to take a cooler, suit, helmet, clothes, camping gear and so on... good looking enough to take my wife to dinner and cheap enough that with (soon to be) 2 kids in college I don't regret it.

The Elise is all but one of those things. I can't get it where I need it for much less than $40k. A used Cayman S might be the 100% car I'm looking for at a little over half that money.

Huckleberry wrote: The Elise is all but one of those things. I can't get it where I need it for much less than $40k. A used Cayman S might be the 100% car I'm looking for at a little over half that money.

Frisbee twins?

Huckleberry wrote:

icaneat50eggs wrote: No Elise hate here. If I could have a stable of 3-4 fun card it would absolutely be my go to track toy. I don't know of anything that would better fill that roll for me. However when I can only have one extra car to fill multiple rolls (weekend cruiser, date night car, autox/track) then I'd go with something more well rounded

This is where I end up as well. I need a car that is quiet enough to use for instruction, fast enough to teach race school, road-worthy enough to drive there, large enough to take a cooler, suit, helmet, clothes, camping gear and so on... good looking enough to take my wife to dinner and cheap enough that with (soon to be) 2 kids in college I don't regret it. The Elise is all but one of those things. I can't get it where I need it for much less than $40k. A used Cayman S might be the 100% car I'm looking for at a little over half that money.

Maybe you could take one of those things in the car at a time, but all of them? The car barely has enough room in the cabin for the passengers and then the trunk is miniscule.

I can't see my wife dealing with getting in and out of the thing for a short drive.

FWIW, I have a friend who's an original owner of an '05 Elise that was updated with a supercharger. It was originally a Touring car but at some point we installed the Sport shock and spring package. He has owned two or three S2000s over the years and would happily agree they were objectively better in many ways but he considers his Elise a "forever car".

He's about 5'9" tall though and has a comfy C6 Corvette for when he wants sporty w/o aggravation.

On the other side of the coin, I know the guy who bought the first or second Elise in NJ. Wanted one for years. HUGE car nut. Raced SCCA, BMWCCA. Has owned a 996 GT3 and a Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale. IIRC, he lasted about a year before deciding the pain outweighed the pleasure.

I'm so glad I'm only 5'7". I fit in everything.

daytonaer wrote: I have owned and driven neither, but this is the internet and I feel like sharing my opinion, so skip this response if you would like.

Likewise:

I had an acquaintance who owns an Elise. At 9000mi he was on his third steering rack and he had the front end of the car apart so he could engineer a brake setup that wasn't garbage for track days. He said the pedal was mushy and had poor feel, and given that the booster was lifted from a VW Golf, I could see why.

He also pointed out that, due to the way the body aerodynamics worked, the radiator exhaust blows right into the car. Said you could feel the difference in air temperature if you stuck your hand six inches over the windshield. Great if it is a 55 degree day in England, lousy if it is a 95 degree day in the Midwest.

None of this deterred him from the car, so the rest of the experience must be extraordiary

Knurled wrote:

daytonaer wrote: I have owned and driven neither, but this is the internet and I feel like sharing my opinion, so skip this response if you would like.

he could engineer a brake setup that wasn't garbage for track days. He said the pedal was mushy and had poor feel, and given that the booster was lifted from a VW Golf, I could see why.

Thanks for bringing this up, it's really my only gripe about the car. What did he engineer to fix the brakes?

I don't really recall all that well. I'd like to say it was a dual master arrangement that bolted in place of the booster. He was working with another friend of his getting the machining work done.

When I saw it, the front of the car was off, and it was still in the sort of planning stages.

Owning an Elise, for me, was like owning a sailboat. The two happiest days were the day I bought it, and the day I sold it (with no real financial loss).

Too much of a one trick pony for my needs.