Anyone own/drive a Volt?

kreb wrote: btw - I think that the Cadilac version is gorgeous.

speaking of which...

http://www.thesmokingtire.com/2014/video-cadillac-elr-vs-chevrolet-volt/

That_Renault_Guy wrote:

ryanty22 wrote: Lets see some pictures of your volts

I'm about 100% sure I saw you and your SO on Woodward last night...in the Caddy of course. Me and two very cute little boys (3 & 5) just south of Sam's gas station sitting on the Sprint store front lawn east side of Woodward.

ryanty22 wrote:

Chris_V wrote:

ryanty22 wrote: Lets see some pictures of your volts

Posted mine on the first page...

Pics dont work

Try again. They seem to be fine.

kreb wrote: I'm very glad to see that GM has stuck with the Volt and is going to do a second generation model. It really is a fine car, but the release was just marred by a series of unfortunate circumstances: -GM's ad department overhyped it and created expectations that weren't realistic or accurate

Actually the ad department and UNDER hyped the car, and never really said what it could do. It CAN drive all year on no fuel if you are one of the 80% of the country that drives under 40 miles a day, but you CAN take it on longer trips if you want to. They never covered the nearly 300 lb ft of torque that lets it feel like it accelerates very quickly. When was the last time you saw a TV ad for the Volt? What did it say that was inaccurate?

-Greenies didn't trust it because it's a Chevy, and because GM abandoned their previous attempt at an alternative vehicle - which had been flawed but promising

this I'll believe, though enough of them praised it anyhow.

-Righties were pissed that so much taxpayer money went into it

Except the project was started in 2006 under a Republican administration. It was part of GM's plan to compete with Toyota and that was EXACTLY what Righties wanted GM to do.

-It was too expensive for the market - particularly since it was clearly based on an economy car.

This shows a lack of understanding of economics. Especially if leasing the car. Average transaction prices for the car were about $27-28k making the lease price about $299 or so. Which compares very well with similarly equipped cars from Honda or Toyota, and on top of that, you didn't have to pay for fuel anymore. Which means total cost of ownership was down to less than that of a typical well equipped Civic or Accord. (the Volt is a well equipped, well built, solid car. It does NOT feel like an economy car or a Prius)

-Tesla, Toyota and Nissan did their market entries better

Tesla came later. Toyota subsidized the cars themselves, then pushed the crap out of them. Remember the negative image the Prius had, though as a smugmobile. Nissan did a nice job with the Leaf, but it wasn't as attractive and it was limited in range, which was the point Bob Lutz made about developing the Volt. Enough electric range to take care of the majority, but long distance ability with no range anxiety.

-It's styling while basically clean and handsome did nothing to set itself apart

I disagree. With 500 hours in the wind tunnel, it looks like it looks for a reason. it has the Chevy family face, but more aggressive, and the chunky look takes the Prius form factor and butches it up a bunch. In red or blue, it really looks good, I think. It didn't need to look wacky like the Leaf, or too conventional like the Tesla.

So in short, a great product undermined from within and from without. But I think that if GM can learn from these mistakes and nail the second iteration, enough people will admit that the first generation rocked that it could get the requisite word-of-mouth for success. I sure hope so.

It needs more than word of mouth. That's all the first gen got. It needs real advertising push, telling people what it can do. It needs a sales force that won't send people off to Cruzes and Malibus.

btw - I think that the Cadilac version is gorgeous.

Yes it is, unfortunately they want to actually turn a profit on them and priced them well north of what they should be. When the dropped the price recently from $75k to $55k, they started selling. I drove one, and it's really a cramped Volt with really nice materials:

Both those cars were sold when I went to test drive one. The third was silver and a base model, and still nice, at $56k.

wawazat wrote:

That_Renault_Guy wrote:

ryanty22 wrote: Lets see some pictures of your volts

I'm about 100% sure I saw you and your SO on Woodward last night...in the Caddy of course. Me and two very cute little boys (3 & 5) just south of Sam's gas station sitting on the Sprint store front lawn east side of Woodward.

Yep, that was us - not too many other rusty '49 Cadillacs driving around :)

we live at 11 & Woodward and it was a perfect evening to do a little cruisin'.

Chris_V wrote:

-Righties were pissed that so much taxpayer money went into it

Except the project was started in 2006 under a Republican administration. It was part of GM's plan to compete with Toyota and that was EXACTLY what Righties wanted GM to do.

Not only that, but the financial issues happened right before they were getting ready to put the Volt to market. GM was in a position where they had this awesome thing but needed a bailout in order to for all of their R&D to bear fruit.

Chrysler had... umm... they used suppliers that GM used and the suppliers needed both of them around in order to stay afloat.

Knurled wrote:

Chris_V wrote:

-Righties were pissed that so much taxpayer money went into it

Except the project was started in 2006 under a Republican administration. It was part of GM's plan to compete with Toyota and that was EXACTLY what Righties wanted GM to do.

A little Googling finds then-presidential candidate John McCain praising the Volt. If he had won, what would the talking heads have had to say about the car?

And where were they in the mid-'00s when Toyota buyers received $400M in the exact same tax credit program that Volt (and Leaf and Tesla) owners enjoy? Did anyone ever ask a Prius owner for a ride in "my" car? As a semi-interested person, the whole Volt thing was a real view into the manufactured, indiscriminate rage that a small group of a-holes utilize to line their pockets with money. Friggin' Bob Lutz, of all people, called them out as liars.

Spinning off on a tangent: there's large section of "media" dedicated to distorting facts. Dr Hess linked to a zerohedge article that highlighted that college educated households under 40 with student loans had 20% less net worth than high school educated households without loan debt. ZOMG COLLEGE IS A MISTAKE!!!???!. Except, two seconds looking into the source material revealed that the 20% difference was actually $2000 (that is, nothing) and the college educated households made EIGHTY PERCENT more income. Who would you rather be? People form intractable opinions from "news" sources like that.

The only downside to the Volt in my house so far is my wife wants us to take it everywhere because even in generator mode it still gets almost twice the MPG of her Forester, and that is dragging down my lifetime MPG haha. I did refuel for the first time last night, and in an odd coincidence there was another Volt at the same gas station.

Worth noting that a lot of folks on the right aren't too enamored of Bush or McCain for that matter. But that's off the track. Chris V makes good points. But ultimately, whereas we tend to look at cars from a dynamic perspective, in the end to most people they are consumer appliances, and there was a lot of negativity surrounding the Volt's release. Whether you are talking about cars, jeans or breakfast cereal, negativity doesn't sell product. That's why it's gratifying to see the General taking another stab at it and not leasing someone else's technology or something.

I do find the marketing thing interesting though. IMO GM rightly saw hybrids as a fringe product, and went with a pretty conservative product in an attempt to mainstream them. If their strategy had worked, it would have been a bases-clearing home run. Instead, from a marketing perspective it wasn't even a pop-out, it was a dribbler that the catcher scooped up and had the baserunner out half-way up the line. Fortunately, like a baseball game, there's a lot more innings to play.

We test drove a new Volt yesterday (my wife and I both drove it). We took Chris_V's advice and drove it in normal and D first, then sport and L second. The difference was definitely noticeable, but not in a bad way. We probably only drove 10 miles, but both came away impressed and liked it much more than the Prius I had as a rental car the week before.

The build quality seemed nice and it was comfortable in both the front and back seats. With the rear seats folded flat, it looked like it would swallow a lot of cargo.

Unfortunately, the sales person, while pleasant, knew NOTHING about the car (but he did declare it to be the future! ). So I have some questions for you folks.

Charging at home - Is there some sort of charging station that comes with the car? Or do I buy one? Does it charge much faster with a 220v outlet?
Charging away from home - My wife works in an office of two (the other person is a family friend) so I think we'll be fine plugging it in at her office as well. How quickly does the car charge on 110v?
Regen - Chris_V mentioned driving in L to get better regen. If driving around town (stop and go), can regen keep pace with battery use? Or does the regen only slow the battery use?
Interior - Is it roomy enough for a family of four to be comfortable on a road trip? Has anyone installed any sort of external cargo carrier to free up space?

I think that's it for now. We're working on the economics now, trying to figure out purchase, lease, new, used, etc.

Might want to sell it before it is 8 years old, though. See:

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2014/01/how-much-does-it-cost-to-replace-the-chevrolet-volts-battery/

dyintorace wrote: We test drove a new Volt yesterday (my wife and I both drove it). We took Chris_V's advice and drove it in normal and D first, then sport and L second. The difference was definitely noticeable, but not in a bad way. We probably only drove 10 miles, but both came away impressed and liked it much more than the Prius I had as a rental car the week before. The build quality seemed nice and it was comfortable in both the front and back seats. With the rear seats folded flat, it looked like it would swallow a lot of cargo. Unfortunately, the sales person, while pleasant, knew NOTHING about the car (but he did declare it to be the future! ). So I have some questions for you folks.

I would shop around for another dealer, I found a dramatic difference between two different local dealers in the Detroit area. The one that specializes in Corvettes was a pretty worthless experience for the Volt, but the other was flawless from start to finish.

dyintorace wrote: Charging at home - Is there some sort of charging station that comes with the car? Or do I buy one? Does it charge much faster with a 220v outlet? Charging away from home - My wife works in an office of two (the other person is a family friend) so I think we'll be fine plugging it in at her office as well. How quickly does the car charge on 110v?

It comes with a 110V (Level 1) charger that I have found to be more than capable for my needs. At the default 8 amp rate (it can also charge at 12A, but you have to manually select every time) it charges pretty slowly, but can still do a full charge in about 12 hours. The 110V/12A is about 9 hours and a 220V Level 2 is about 4 hours. Another advantage of the Level 2 charger is being able to have a dedicated meter for it with on-peak/off-peak rates. You can check with your electrical utility and run the numbers to see if it makes sense for you.

dyintorace wrote: Regen - Chris_V mentioned driving in L to get better regen. If driving around town (stop and go), can regen keep pace with battery use? Or does the regen only slow the battery use?

The regen can not keep up, but it does make a pretty big difference in range for around town.

dyintorace wrote: Interior - Is it roomy enough for a family of four to be comfortable on a road trip? Has anyone installed any sort of external cargo carrier to free up space?

My girls (8 and 12) are more than comfortable in the back seat and we use the Volt (rather than Mazda5) almost exclusively for family driving. The cargo area is decent, but pretty limited in height. I think there are some roof top carriers available, but the extra drag would certainly have an impact in range and mileage.

also, http://gm-volt.com/forum/index.php is a pretty good resource for way more info than you could ever possible absorb fully.

dyintorace wrote: Regen - Chris_V mentioned driving in L to get better regen.

Just to be Mr. Pedantic, driving in L only increases the default regen level when off the gas. Since the brake pedal activates regen too, there's no net change. It's my belief that some people see better range in L simply because it changes the their driving behavior.

IIRC, all decel up to ~0.3g can be handled by regen. According to a Volt Advisor who spoke to an engineer on the Volt team, when the leaves disappear on the green whirling ball of guilt, the car is starting to blend in hydraulic assist.

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If driving around town (stop and go), can regen keep pace with battery use? Or does the regen only slow the battery use?

Regen just recaptures some of the energy already used to move the car. There can never be a net gain (save for a really long downhill, I guess).

On two seat vehicles there is a way to disable the airbag enabling a person under 12 to ride in the front seat. For pickups it's a key lockout and Boxters/Cayman have a buckle kit from Porsche. Seeing as how we have two kids with one in the oven is there a kit for the Volt?

mfennell wrote:

dyintorace wrote: Regen - Chris_V mentioned driving in L to get better regen.

Just to be Mr. Pedantic, driving in L only increases the default regen level when off the "gas". Since the brake pedal activates regen too, there's no net change. It's my belief that some people see better range in L simply because it changes the their driving behavior. IIRC, all decel up to ~0.3g can be handled by regen. According to a Volt Advisor who spoke to an engineer on the Volt team, when the leaves disappear on the green whirling ball of guilt, the car is starting to blend in hydraulic assist.

If driving around town (stop and go), can regen keep pace with battery use? Or does the regen only slow the battery use?

Regen just recaptures some of the energy already used to move the car. There can never be a net gain (save for a really long downhill, I guess).

I get miles back on downhill runs, as well as miles back when coasting down. The trip from my house to downtown Baltimore is 10 miles, but it only takes 3 miles of indicated range to do it in L, while it takes nearly the full 10 if I do the same trip in D. Yes, it changed the driving behavior as you only use one pedal and let off the throttle when you want to slow down instead of using the brakes. BUT, I've noticed that braking in D does not give as much regen as just letting off the throttle in L. In theory, it is supposed to be the same, but in practice, it is very different.

Also, in Hold mode, it's not supposed to generate more than the car uses to maintain battery charge, BUT, in practice, it will in fact generate more. When in Hold mode, the green battery range remaining indicator goes grey, with a red line at the miles remaining segment that you switched to hold at (say, you used battery for 5 miles, then at 39 miles left, you went on the highway and put it in Hold mode, there would then be a red line at the 39 miles left point). The generator will maintain that charge so that you have that many miles left when you switch out of hold mode. I've noticed that it will in fact add green bars above the red line and show more miles remaining, at which point the generator shuts down and the car runs on pure electricity until it gets back below the red "Hold" line. Which tells me it's only a program away from generating electricity back while driving long trips.

I'm a geek and, according to GRM, a dork. I think the Volt is the coolest thing ever. I'm starting to wonder if my credit is good enough for me to get one. I can justify (and cover) it financially.

disclaimer: Have never had a car loan ever.

Chris_V wrote: Which tells me it's only a program away from generating electricity back while driving long trips.

Already done, that's what "mountain mode" is.

Renault, did you own the car during last miserable winter? I'm curious what a Volt would be to like to live with when it's blasted cold and snowy.

Thanks for the continued details folks. Please keep 'em coming.

glueguy wrote: I'm curious what a Volt would be to like to live with when it's blasted cold and snowy.

You can pre-heat the car on shore power. That alone is worth it to me.

glueguy wrote: Renault, did you own the car during last miserable winter? I'm curious what a Volt would be to like to live with when it's blasted cold and snowy.

I bought mine in April, so I missed the bad winter with it. I suspect the only potential issue will be ground clearance in deep snow.

A good friend of mine works for Bosch's EV department and they have developed a Level II charger that retails for $449, might be worth looking into for those that own or plan to own a Volt. I know I'll be getting one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s51UlXNg3Is

Also their do appear to be roof racks available for extra space during road trips etc

And they look awesome with aftermarket wheels!

Storz wrote: A good friend of mine works for Bosch's EV department and they have developed a Level II charger that retails for $449, might be worth looking into for those that own or plan to own a Volt. I know I'll be getting one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s51UlXNg3Is Also their do appear to be roof racks available for extra space during road trips etc

Those wheels look REALLY good on that car.