Assimilation is imminent - 2001 Miata, 18K mi, what would you pay? Performance improvements, too?

So, down at the stealer (actually, the sales guy is cool - gotta say), and they've got a 2001, 6-sp car to hear it told, 18K miles. BRG with tan top/interior, 16" wheels.

Car looks pretty solid, some curb rash on the wheels, interior leather (yuck) is in really good shape, a few scratches along the body and a ding in the nose the dealer is going to fix.

Couldn't test drive the car off the lot as they have to do their certification inspection (it's either a snow job, or, their lawyers are paranoid...), only cranked it and let it run. Doesn't feel quite as smooth at idle as the Focus, but there's 11 years difference in the car, so I suppose that's neither here nor there (it wasn't massive buzz in any sense, I just noticed it a little).

Top looks to be in good condition, plastic window seems ok.

Motor looked clean enough for 18K miles, paint is pretty darn shiny for it's age, makes me think garaged?

Their first shot across the bow from the dealer was $15K or $16K, which was way high - but, what would the going rate be for a car like this?

Also, looks like there are no easy power adders for the car, either, so 140hp it is? Can you get 150 or better at the wheels with out massive dollars? A brief search a few days ago says an NC car has a little more stuff to bump power.

What sez y'all?

2001 should be a NB. NC didn't start until 2006.

Power adders are available for both NB and NC, at least from FlyinMiata

You can get NC's for about 8-10K on the West coast, so an 01 shouldn't be that high, IMO.

For example: turbo kits for the 01-05 cars...

http://flyinmiata.com/index.php?dept=35

For power adder, I should've specified simple bolt on's; intake, exhaust, "tune" (those things on the focus have gotten 175whp, give or take). Since I've not gotten the 320i up and running (and that's a simple task, just haven't done it), I don't anticipate spending the time and effort for something as intricate as a turbo system, even if it double's the hp.

I was just hoping for a bit more than 140 at the crank. And from the miata.net forum, looks like "intake" and exhaust are about it, and for only a few hp at best.

Price-of-the-car wise, I'm seeing NCs in the Arizona desert here at about $10-12k. Lots of NB cars of similar year and low mileage range as this one for between $7-9k.

Notionally, I'd prefer an NC, but this is a low mileage car, and I do like the green color. NC gets, what, 20hp more? I don't think it weighs too much more than an NB, either.

Decisions, decisions....

Another question, as I search, it looks like BRG Miata's were only available in 2001? And those cars should have wood trim steering wheel and gear knob?

What about "side skirts" - the few pics I've seen, even the "SE" doesn't have any body molding on it, but the car I'm looking at does.

BRG was the special edition color for that year. So the car will usually have every option out there. The tupperware was an option so it may or may not have it.

Miata.net has a ton of info on the additional performance items.

Oh and don't be afraid of a higher mileage NC. There is a great swap out there to put a 2.5L motor in the NC's It's not that expensive and they are getting around 200 HP to the wheels with some cams.

My first thought is they aren't even in the ballpark on the price. NB's are close to the bottom of the depreciation curve right now. In some cases, locally at least, they are as cheap if not cheaper than earlier, NA models. I understand it has low miles, but its doesn't sound like its mint, and the price they're asking is mint+. Further, this is the best time of the year to buy, but a terrible time to sell. Low mileage is nice, but a properly cared for Miata will run for a looooong time, so it doesn't add a ton to the value.

That said, the BRG/tan combo NB is a really nice looking car.

As for mods, it is kind of a go big or go home car. Turbo/supercharger or nothing. All the N/A mods you described would be lucky to net you 10hp and, if you buy the wrong parts, may actually loose you some power. There just isn't a lot to be had. On the other hand, spending your I/H/E/tune money on the suspension will leave you with that stupid punch-drunk grin that makes so many of us drive a car we don't really even fit in.

EDIT: Noticed you also asked "What would you pay?" Probably 10 or 11K if it wasn't exactly what I wanted, maybe 12 if I really wanted it.

kazoospec wrote: EDIT: Noticed you also asked "What would you pay?" Probably 10 or 11K if it wasn't exactly what I wanted, maybe 12 if I really wanted it.

I wouldn't go into 5 figures for that car. Low mileage is as low mileage does, and these things aren't Ferraris or something with a 30,000-mile duty cycle. If you're really worried about power, find a well-sorted one that's already been properly modified.

For instance, $19k buys you this.

Someone here or on miata.net probably has a nice toy they are bored with that you can have in the $10k range.

You can get 140 rwhp with some investment, but it'll probably cost you less to just stick the turbo on it and make 190-200 rwhp instead But the 01-05 cars are a good base to build on. A whole bunch of stuff is a step up from the 1999-00 version.

The place to spend your money on a Miata (from a bang for the buck perspective) is suspension. You can improve on that factory Bilstein setup fairly easily, and pick up more grip, more comfort and more control.

About flywheel vs whp - the Miata will likely have more drivetrain loss than a Focus due to the longitudinal engine configuration. Best to pick one unit and stick with it instead of bouncing back and forth.

This particular car is commanding a premium because it's BRG (which really nails a certain demographic right in the wallet feelies) and because it's low mileage. The seller is aiming for collectors. Most Miatas are second cars, so garaged and (relatively) low mileage isn't unusual.

The top shouldn't have a plastic window if it's original. NBs came with glass windows.

$15k-16k? I don't care how rare the combination is on that car and how low the miles, there is no way I would pay that much for an NB. Curb rash, scratches and a ding? That thing better be perfect for that kinda money.

^Was just going to say that.^
And 5-digits? No, not when other NB's are at least half that. That's NC range.

I have an '01 BRG, same as what you're looking at. It should have a glass rear window and the top material should be vinyl that's textured to look like canvas. It should also have a wood rimmed wheel, shift knob & faux wood console bits if it's a BGR-SE. A couple of things I've seen that may or may not apply:

1. The original clutch disk is prone to chattering. Mazda came out with 2 replacements before they got it right. They also covered it under warranty. I bought my car used with a chattering disk and did a clutch job with the updated OEM stuff at ~45K miles.

2. The thin perforated leather seat centers will go quick if they're dried out with age. The cracks open up between perforations.

3. My 6 speed randomly clunks on gear changes, mostly upshifting at low throttle openings. It's so intermittent that I suspect a worn thrust washer or something. Minor, but it's there. Look for it on your test drive.

4. At some point (50-60K Mi) crank and/or cam sensors will go bad and kill the motor temporarily until it cools down. Then it'll start up and drive away. It will not throw a code, just piss you off for a while. They're cheap enough that I'd replace them both pre-emptively if I had it to do over.

Other than those annoyances the thing's been great. Like all Miatas, it's forte is tooling around the back roads in open top joy. You'll pay a premium for the BRG package though (only 3,000 built), so if you don't appreciate John Deere green you can beat the price elsewhere.

They said the top was "new" so that's the plastic rear window.

I am 99% certain that as I sat in it, the wheel & gear knob were NOT wood. Just the standard black vinyl in both cases.

As I ball parked prices last night, the $7-9K range was applicable to cars of similar "status", and before I searched, my first reply back to the dealer was, "I'm thinking $8k, and even at that, $9K & change w/TTL or OTD seems to hurt a little".

The NC starts with more hp, and as far as I recall, it's only about 100lb more max weight (I saw 2447 for a tarted up model like this '01, and I think 2550 or thereabouts for a "stripper" NC).

I'd like something that feels a little peppier than the Focus (bone stock for bone stock), and I'm afraid the NB would be kind of same same. Not bad, but I'd like a litte more (isn't that always the case).

I do like the green color, but I think I'd like another few tenths worth acceleration more.

Having said that, I have yet to drive either an NC or an NB.

Are the wheels polished? If not, sounds like it's not a BRG Special - it's an "Emerald Mica" green metallic paint job that was pretty common with the Tupperware side skirts.

Drive every generation you can and decide which fits best.

So they're asking more than top dollar and they put a wrong/cheap roof on it?

In reply to OldGray320i:Have to agree with Keith. Limited Editions are way over the top of other Miata prices. If I were planning to do anything but garaging & show & shining my Miata, I'd spend less money for another color.

Suspension and tires are the cheapest performance improvement. However a well designed B.A. Supercharger kit can be installed by the typical garage junky without much of a problem. Once you get past the purchase price of course.

Bang for the buck. I'd go with a more standard color & spend the difference in hop up bits. And as several others have said. Mileage on a Miata is almost never an issue.

BTW: All the wood, chrome, and plastic bits you could ever want are readily available. You can pretty much dress any Miata up or down as much as it suits your taste & wallet.

irt Rupert - I tend to prefer strippers. Well, cars with minimal features. The other kind are enticing too, but mama would not approve.

irt Boxhead Tim - No, actually the "owner" they bought it from had replaced it prior to their acquisition. They are a dealer, but not that bad...

In reply to OldGray320i: Want the rear glass in a plastic windowed top? There are several good kits you can buy with the glass portion zipping right in.

You don't have to replace the whole top. And the rear defroster will work once you plug it back in too.

For less than they are asking you can buy an NC with comparable miles (not thats it's preferred but it's got more value). I honestly wouldn't waste my time if they are that far out of line on the price they are crooks and don't deserve my business. Also be weary of a plastic window, I thought all NB's came with glass rear windows? Even if they didn't you can bet it would be a base model with an open diff to have got a plastic window. Or it's a non original top and someone went cheap, what else did they cut corners on to save a buck? I'd walk away and fast.

I had an '01 SE with a six speed. The transmission developed a habit of crunching when shifting to second. I tried every different kind of oil and nothing helped. Apparently this is a common problem. The clutch also was a disappointment, it chattered really bad in stop and go traffic. The clutch issue is also a common problem.

Evil, there may be something to that, 18k miles or not; there was the ding in the nose, and a terrible home brew repair job. And it is the Micah Emerald Green metallic. Dealer will be fixing all that stuff, but I intend to drive it and an auto-tragic NC to at least compare driving dynamics.

I liked it more yesterday/last night (and I still like the Emerald Green - actual BRG is so much cooler, but I still like the color a lot) before calming down and getting some inputs here. The NC is more the car I want, but the dude gave me a call so I went to see it.

Fujioko - that would drive me bananas; are the six boxes improved as the years go on (i.e. NC cars)?

OldGray320i wrote: Evil, there may be something to that, 18k miles or not; there was the ding in the nose, and a terrible home brew repair job. And it is the Micah Emerald Green metallic. Dealer will be fixing all that stuff, but I intend to drive it and an auto-tragic NC to at least compare driving dynamics. I liked it more yesterday/last night (and I still like the Emerald Green - actual BRG is so much cooler, but I still like the color a lot) before calming down and getting some inputs here. The NC is more the car I want, but the dude gave me a call so I went to see it. Fujioko - that would drive me bananas; are the six boxes improved as the years go on (i.e. NC cars)?

Yes, the 6-speeds got better in the later years and as was stated earlier in this thread, Mazda had to take a few swipes to get the clutch right. Replacement with a new clutch solves that problem apparently.

Having driven an NC with the auto, I didn't hate it. The auto was fairly responsive to input on the paddles/shifter and it was nice to be able to crawl along in traffic and since its a 6-speed the gearing isn't horrible either so the car doesn't suffer too much performance loss from it. I just wish the styling of the NC wasn't so far from the NA or NB.

I will say that the extra storage cubbies were nice on road trips and the interior was pretty comfy. Apparently the early NC's had pretty woeful suspension tuning, but that is easily overcome with new shocks and springs (whether OEM units from a later sport or something more sporty from FM, etc.)

Power additions on the NC is basically limited to supercharging. It isn't cheap, but 230hp seems like it would be a lot of fun in that car.

The six speed boxes improved immensely with the NC. None of the NB ones are great - the best are about as good as an average Miata 5-speed.

As for the 2001-etc clutch problems, we've always thought it was the flywheels. They are visibly different in the machining. Like the feed was turned up too high when they were being surfaced. I know we've never had a problem with the FM clutches and flywheels on those cars.

All NBs had glass windows from the factory. Depending on the design of the aftermarket top, you may not be able to get a zip-in glass replacement. That would only work if you had an NA top, which won't actually fit on an NB frame. FYI.

BoxheadTim wrote: So they're asking more than top dollar and they put a wrong/cheap roof on it?

Standard stuff from a dealer.

And they probably gave some poor schlub $3K for it as a trade in. Dealers. I pass gas in their general direction.